CSL's - The Truth or just Perception

C

chewitt13

Member
 Aberdeen
There's lots of topics on CSL's and hopifully i won't touch on previously tread ground.

First of all, what are the differences between actual CSL's or CSL 'Style' wheels apart from about 1K

is it only that originals are lighter? if so, by how much?, Does this make a difference in the land of 50-80kg passengers

Do they use a different alloy? I would be surprised if it was that different that it made a difference to material properties

Is it the moulding? there are some very poor copies out there but i would struggle to identify the real ones from good level replica's

I've heard dealers won't touch replicas, but is this not an action to continue us down the same BMW track.

I've almost bought 2 originals sets and i'm starting to wonder why? If it looks the same, handles the same and lasts the same. is it not the same.

Thoughts?
 
I think the other thing you need to bear in mind is how second hand originals will have been treated. As we've already seen elsewhere, with very low profile tyres on large rims, theres a lot less of a buffer between rims and road, so damage like cracking or warping of wheels can and does occur.

If it was an aircraft, you wouldn't even entertain fitting s/h wheels like this, but given the lack of reported catastrophic failures, one has to assume that its safe to do so on a Zed, even after grinding away lumps of the rim to remove kerbing marks etc.. :w00t:

Given that alloy wheels have a relatively finite life (these are complex chemical combinations that are not terrifically stable over a period of time and more brittle and prone to corrosion or unseen cracking than their steel equivalents), especially on a performance car, my personal preference would be to go for a less expensive but good quality NEW replica, then at least you know you're getting a wheel in top condition.

The other argument thats often dragged out but is, IMHO, fatuous, is the old chestnut about "must keep it original or it won't sell".....frankly it doesn't matter what you do to your car while you own it, and if you think it needs re-OEMing before sale, well fine get on and do it, but don't let concerns about whats going to happen in 3-5 years time spoil your ownership experience....

But thats just my HO. :) :poke:
 
CSL Rep weights from:
http://www.modbargains.com/product.aspx?pf_id=velocity009

19x8.5 = 24.75 lbs
19x9.5 = 25.25 lbs
19x10 = 26 lbs

And from E46Fanatics heres the OEM CSL weights:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=652593

OEM CSL/ZCP are made by BBS Germany (not Japan)
Slow Form Cast
19x8 = 23.0 lbs
19x9.5 = 24.2 lbs

Indeed there may be some errors, but in reality the OEM CSL's will be a maximum of 1-2lbs lighter. They will also most likely be stronger with a higher level of quality control. Its just your call as to whether its worth a grand for the difference :)
 
may be theres a lot of purists out there!i think that if you do the reserch on the alloy and you can find out where they come from..ie may be have tuv branding on them then imo i cant see a problem,copys however will tend to be slightly heavier and i certainly wouldn't buy any sauced from china!!! :thumbsup:
ps..imo you should always keep the original alloys to help at sale time.
 
etedlm said:
may be theres a lot of purists out there!i think that if you do the reserch on the alloy and you can find out where they come from..ie may be have tuv branding on them then imo i cant see a problem,copys however will tend to be slightly heavier and i certainly wouldn't buy any sauced from china!!! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Latter point interesting; BBS went bust in 07 and were taken over by Punch (a Belgian company) and there was a reference somewhere to BBS plants in Japan and Korea having been a contributer to their failure.....
 
I have some experience of the weight difference (between the Outlaw Anarchist copy and genuine CSL's). As EdButler's figures suggest, there's very little difference.

I couldn't feel a difference at all, but I was comparing one with Avon ZZ3's with another that had Cups on it.

With regard to manufacturing, that was the last argument I had with Dick(head) Lovett, as I couldn't know that my fake wheels were TUV approved. There are no markings anywhere on the wheel to suggest it is. Have a look in the How To's for my guide on the differences.

My original plan was always to get a genuine set, but having seen the abuse the wheels take (and how little protection the tyre offers) I'm partly glad that I have fakes. They're knackered, and I don't give a s**t about them. If I was to buy a set now, I'd think long and hard about it.
 
My own decision was based on what I felt most comfortable with. If I could find fakes from a known origin with known quality assurance - I would have gone with the cheaper option but I just couldn't find any that even looked as good as originals. For the sake of about £200 per wheel I was happier to have the real thing. I don't mind paying £10 for fake trainers but no fake parts are going on my car unless there is proven quality assurance.
 
I went for real ones as remember seeing BMW adverts where copies had been x-rayed showing internal defects in the casting. Maybe BMW hype, but they are the only thing that connects the tyre to the road. It would be like buying a fake watch, it might work for a while and fool some people, but I'd always know, and for me the extra was worth the peace of mind.

Found these for you though. £790 including tyres :o :o :o

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/19-CSL-ALLOY-WHEELS-BMW-Z3M-ROADSTER-TYRES_W0QQitemZ110461399142QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarParts_Acc_Wheels_tyres_Trims_Car_Rims_ET?hash=item19b8033066

They must be made from cheese, however I cannot tell them apart from mine. Not sure how you'd go on with insurance if you had a crash due to a failure of a non-BMW wheel.
 
insurance don't ask what alloys you have do they, they only care about what they cost so they can charge you more premium. had a laugh at that ebay link, if they cant even spell BEAT i wouldn't give them 8p let alone £800!
 
klarky said:
insurance don't ask what alloys you have do they, they only care about what they cost so they can charge you more premium. had a laugh at that ebay link, if they cant even spell BEAT i wouldn't give them 8p let alone £800!
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Thats not fair, the bloke is from Scotland where beet is part of their daily diet, so it was probably a Freudian slip.... :fuelfire:

and @raify - I shouldn't, but LMFAO @ Dick(head) Lovett!! :rofl:
 
I can understand the watch argument but we are not talking about swiss watches, Fake watches look the same but have painfully inferior internals thus they perform badly compared to an original. A fair amount of delicate engineering goes into a Tag or a Omega

A wheel is a metal casting, the only difference between the originals and the replica's will be the grade of metal used, The differences highlighted in the 'How to' section indicate a different casting and not any more engineering

I would be interested in knowing the material grade used on both as if they are from the same metallic group the properties will likely be similar in the 'operational enviroment' that we would use them.

I'm not anti original, i would never wear a fake watch, i am just trying to explore why i wanted originals other than i wanted them.
 
Just a thought on the OEM vs reps, the price difference isn't so great when you can sell a set of second hand genuine CSL's for £1200+ when you've finished with them,.
 
lacroupade said:
klarky said:
insurance don't ask what alloys you have do they, they only care about what they cost so they can charge you more premium. had a laugh at that ebay link, if they cant even spell BEAT i wouldn't give them 8p let alone £800!
Click to expand...

Thats not fair, the bloke is from Scotland where beet is part of their daily diet, so it was probably a Freudian slip.... :fuelfire:
Click to expand...

LOL! You've probably got a point, they're from Ayrshire which explains a lot...

But, that alloy wheel place has a decent reputation for quality. One of the few places I could find that do staggered setups.
 
lacroupade said:
klarky said:
insurance don't ask what alloys you have do they, they only care about what they cost so they can charge you more premium. had a laugh at that ebay link, if they cant even spell BEAT i wouldn't give them 8p let alone £800!
Click to expand...

Thats not fair, the bloke is from Scotland where beet is part of their daily diet, so it was probably a Freudian slip.... :fuelfire:

and @raify - I shouldn't, but LMFAO @ Dick(head) Lovett!! :rofl:
Click to expand...

lol - im a scot and i certainly dont eat beet, and how do you beet a credit crunch exactly ??
 
EdButler said:
CSL Rep weights from:
http://www.modbargains.com/product.aspx?pf_id=velocity009

19x8.5 = 24.75 lbs
19x9.5 = 25.25 lbs
19x10 = 26 lbs

And from E46Fanatics heres the OEM CSL weights:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=652593

OEM CSL/ZCP are made by BBS Germany (not Japan)
Slow Form Cast
19x8 = 23.0 lbs
19x9.5 = 24.2 lbs

Indeed there may be some errors, but in reality the OEM CSL's will be a maximum of 1-2lbs lighter. They will also most likely be stronger with a higher level of quality control. Its just your call as to whether its worth a grand for the difference :)
Click to expand...

Having owned and weighed the VMR 19" CSL reps, I can tell you the weight is closer to 28lbs front and 30lbs rear. Everyone who's owned and bothered to weigh them got similar results.

I also owned a set of OEM ZCP's and their weights were true as claimed.
 
Top pup said:
Just a thought on the OEM vs reps, the price difference isn't so great when you can sell a set of second hand genuine CSL's for £1200+ when you've finished with them,.
Click to expand...

To answer the OPs question, we have no way of knowing if OEM quality v copy quality is truth or perception however using the commercial argument above, original CSLs are cheaper to own and they are from a traceable origin so my wife will know who to thank if originals fail and kill me. Why buy a copy unless you really can't stretch to the real thing in the first place in which case stay with your original wheels - they look pretty good to me.
 
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