Converting a Z4M to an automatic ????? Blasphemy !

[GuidoK]

If at some point I find myself in a position that I can afford to " upgrade " I have decided to explore the Z4M with auto box route first as that is what I would really like .

I think the biggest hurdle is that there is no 'bolt on solution'
I've done quite a bit to my car, also to the point that there are no 'aftermarket solutions' for the upgrades I want, so I'm often at the point that I need to fabricate my own parts or extensively adapt/machine existing parts to give them the spec/functionality I want.
That takes about 10-100times as long as bolt ons.
Paying someone to figure things out is extremely expensive.

 

[1536Z4]

Paying someone to figure things out is extremely expensive.

Yes I have found that already with manifold headers . I have been quoted between £2000 - £3000 to have them custom made . Did your Schmiedmann headers and cats fit without any problem ?

 

[GuidoK]

Did your Schmiedmann headers and cats fit without any problem ?

No, it is a set designed for an E46 automatic I believe. (and this is a set for the m54, I don't have a z4m but a 3.0i)
My set also isn't the 'copy' of the supersprint design, it's a different design with some crazy bends and curves.
Its this set:https://www.schmiedmann.co.uk/en/bmw-E46/16694-new?product=SCM5254
With these headers:

Headers are fine, although very difficult to fit as they have a big pipe diameter and lots of curves, so they mask many cylinder head studs.
(the set they have now for the z4 (so the supersprint copy).. I don't believe they even had that back then when I installed it and supersprint is just very expensive.

The pipes that contained the cats (so the S pipes) had to be shortened, but there was a piece of pipe included that can slot inside the original pipes, so a cut and some special exhaust clamps did that trick.
And also some cuts had to be made and welded shut to align the cats closer together (otherwise they touched the transmission tunnel).
And to mate with the existing exhaust system (that had a much smaller diameter), I think I used a piece of stainless sheet that I bend in a circle and used as a spacer, with a powerful exhaust clamp clamping it shut (I probably made some slits to shrink).

The exhaust set was very cheap, I think I paid €610 incl VAT so about £520, but it took some minor work.
With a professional exhaust shop, that work would probably have taken a full day (fitting the headers not being able to reach the nuts taking quite a portion of that day).

Mind you, this set doesn't fit a british car! (I have a LHD car). That steering column axis going through there is a pain for you guys*.
I don't even know if there's an aftermarket header solution for british m54 cars. I don't know if schmiedmann has a UK set. In the past there has been talk about it but I've never actually seen one that someone fitted
I've seen people modifying RHD S50 headers (e36 m3) (those still were proper headers) for M54 engines (weld on a different cylinder head flange). Because for the s50 engine there was a RHD version made of course.
The M54 exhaust manifold is extremely restricted. Internally about 1x 1" if I had to guess.

That's why I always say: when having an inline six, when it's british made it should be RHD, when it's mainland (or US) made it should be LHD.
Because the I6 has a definate cold and hot side. With british I6's the cold side and hot side are swapped. That way both the steering column and brake system are on the cold side which is way better for performance and build. So there's definately a technical advantage here.

 

[RedUn]

Better off looking at something like a e89 35I or IS, E92 M3, 135 auto, m235/240, M2, M2 Comp newer m3/4 etc etc or any that have been made as an auto.

I will use Tom`s quote as it combines what some of you have said and to sum up my thoughts so far . Yes it would be much easier and more sensible to get something that is more powerful etc and already has an auto box but I love a challenge even if I don`t have the expertise to do the job . As this was a hypothetical question I really appreciate the time taken and views given and the options supplied on what auto boxes may work or other work rounds and that inspires me .

If at some point I find myself in a position that I can afford to " upgrade " I have decided to explore the Z4M with auto box route first as that is what I would really like . If that day arrives I will most certainly be doing a build thread unless someone else is as mad as me and does it first of course

If any of you are going to Shepshed tomorrow I hope you have a great time . Maybe next year for me

You'd be better off putting a sequential box in and a hand clutch just for setting off and stopping 8)

 

[GuidoK]

You'd be better off putting a sequential box in and a hand clutch just for setting off and stopping 8)

Straight cut Quaife sequential box :evil:
lets see how his wife likes that :rofl:

(although most drivers still often clutch with such gearboxes especially on the downshift.)

Still, thats 8k for just the box and bell housing. Add another 1-2k for a raceclutch and smf conversion, and the work, and you're easily over 10k.
Maybe a custom propshaft is also needed (another 1-2k)

 

[Mr Tidy]

If at some point I find myself in a position that I can afford to " upgrade " I have decided to explore the Z4M with auto box route first as that is what I would really like . If that day arrives I will most certainly be doing a build thread unless someone else is as mad as me and does it first of course

Well it's certainly an interesting idea, but apart from looking like quite a challenge it could be pretty expensive too. And might not do the car's value any favours either!

Good luck if you do end up doing it though.

 

[Zedebee]

If you are enjoying your 3.0Si auto but want the performance of an MC, why don’t you supercharge it? Much cheaper and people have done it before.

 

[1536Z4]

lets see how his wife likes that

We`re not married but she would love it :evil: :evil: :evil: :driving: ( I think )

 

[1536Z4]

If you are enjoying your 3.0Si auto but want the performance of an MC, why don’t you supercharge it? Much cheaper and people have done it before.

I have thought about the supercharge route but it still comes back to it not being a S54 or an M . I suppose the only way I can explain it is to turn my situation around and say to everyone with a Z4M how would you feel if when BMW bought out the Z4M that they decided to produce 2 versions a manual with the N52 engine or an automatic with the S54 . At least you would have the choice and it would still be an M but wouldn`t you feel a bit cheated ?

 

[1536Z4]

Headers are fine, although very difficult to fit as they have a big pipe diameter and lots of curves, so they mask many cylinder head studs

They look great though and I like the way you work round an issue .

 

[1536Z4]

nd might not do the car's value any favours either!

I have thought about that but surely I`m not the only person that would want/need a Z4M auto and wouldn`t it also be "unique" ?

 

[tomscott]

I suppose the other thing to bare in mind is the time factor and the fact there might not be a solution. Could end up buying a car that will end up sitting for months as assuming you would need the car to develop this (as you mention you would struggle to drive a manual anyway) as its developed and in parts so it can't be used anyway.

Even if it is possible suppose reliability comes into it too. I generally believe they didn't add an auto variant is because of space constraints in the drive train and also the fact the standard auto box wouldn't give the M experience.

As good as the Z4M is its also flawed (which is why I like it) but there are faster, (Much) cheaper to run and newer alternatives that will give as exciting experience out of the box.

As much as I love the idea of people modding and improving/changing for personal situations, if you actually want to just get in, drive and enjoy it seems like it could be a long and expensive road without a guarantee it will work.

Worst case you can always put the manual back in no harm but for me I just want to drive it not mess about.

In the photography world they say the best camera is the one you have with you.

From being on this forum for 10 years there have been lots of projects that start with lots of energy and then fizzle and get moved on for a fraction they were purchased with.

I mean lets be honest if you want a fabulous auto in a great body engine combo why not by a 981 cayman or Boxster PDK. That car in almost every respect is better than the Z4M apart from the axe murder feel. 90% of people don't like the idea of the car trying not to kill them :rofl: and the 981 is a very enjoyable car to drive and easy to drive on the edge the Z4M is a handful on UK a-b roads and can be very rewarding but the Porsche equivalent makes you feel like a hero because they are that good. Take that as a positive or negative everyones different.

I had a 987 Boxster S and as good as they are I missed the Z4M because its more of a handful driving quick. The Boxster hit every apex and does everything you want but I found it a bit clinical. If its a fast smile machine in auto your after the 981s are fab cars... the engine maybe isn't as exciting as the Z but it sounds better especially the sports exhaust variants.

[youtube]IpAa9fu3HqI[/youtube]

PDK is literally insane too, my dad has a 991 Carrera S PDK and we took it on a 3000 mile euro trip and it was incredible through the alps. A buddy went with his 981 and in the tunnels it sounds a whole lot more car than it is.

I would go and drive a load of options and make sure the Z4M is worth it

 

[TomK]

My probably hypothetical question is which auto gearbox do you think would be best to put into a Z4M and do you think it would be possible without costing more than the car is worth . ( Just waiting for someone to say the car would be worthless without a manual gearbox :rofl: )

Apologies for any offence caused by this post .

Mechanically I wouldn't have thought it would be 'that' difficult if you were to use the ZF smg z4 box which is near identical to the M's I believe, should fit but perhaps there is constraints for the pump etc. Obviously you can also get the z4smg paddles and selector, not sure how you go about getting gear info displayed on the dash and I imagine the whole electronics side might be a bit of a mare!
6-speed ZF GS6-S37BZ SMG automated manual (2.5i, 3.0i)
6-speed manual ZF GS6-37BZ (3.0i, 3.0si, Z4M)

 

[1536Z4]

I would go and drive a load of options and make sure the Z4M is worth it

Thanks Tom . I used to ride motorbikes but obviously cant now so I am definitely in the driving a car section rather than get in and let the auto box go through the gears . I always had a manual box on my previous cars .Mine is nearly always in sport mode and I change gear with the flappy paddles ( which I don`t find intuitive ) or stick .
I would love to drive lots of other options but how would I know how they compare with a Z4M when I cant drive a Z4M ?
I suppose I could sit in the passenger seat of a Z4M but does that give you the same feeling ?

We could discuss this until the cows come home which is fine by me and is why I posted the question and I hope it helps other people that may be in the same position one day . I would love a Porsche with PDK and going by the amount you see on the roads plenty of other people do also but I suppose that is another point about the Z4M it`s exclusivity . How often do you see one compared with a Porsche

 

[1536Z4]

I imagine the whole electronics side might be a bit of a mare!

From looking at many you tube build posts the electrics are normally where you see the most issues and my electrical skills are worse than my mechanical so that is definitely an area that would need to be sorted by a specialist .

 

[RedUn]

lets see how his wife likes that

We`re not married but she would love it :evil: :evil: :evil: :driving: ( I think )

Who wouldn't, sequential whine adds more to the experience if you ask me :evil: :driving:

I think it would suit then character of the engine more than a standard slush box type auto, I imagine if you wanted to sell it later it wouldnt be too hard for someone who's looking for a track / race car build.

 

[RedUn]

This seems reasonable enough to me for popping to the shops

[youtube]QAA4KPjTPsU[/youtube]

 

[1536Z4]

Who wouldn't, sequential whine adds more to the experience if you ask me

Would a sequential gearbox be much noisier if you soundproofed the floor and kept it carpeted ?

 

[RedUn]

Who wouldn't, sequential whine adds more to the experience if you ask me

Would a sequential gearbox be much noisier if you soundproofed the floor and kept it carpeted ?

I'd imagine it would be a lot quieter yes but its the straight cut gears that are the problem.

Someone will have a sequential road car to get advice from...

 

[RedUn]

Doing some reading it seems around 2004 they made the z4 with an SMG box... If that's the case I'd be tempted to head that route!