Conv Roof

M

MX7

Member
Finally got back to working on my wife’s convertible. It’s a 2005 Z4 3.0i. Last season the roof would unlatch but I didn’t hear the motor in the well running.

Ordered a replacement. Had surgery. Everything put on hold.

Used the “pull the motor into the trunk (boot?) trick” that’s so popular on the forum and elsewhere. It really is a great approach.

Replaced the motor only (existing pump) and wired it up. Jammed something in the micro switch and…

The roof unlatches. I can hear the motor spinning, but the roof’s not moving.

I thought maybe I wired it backwards. Switched the wires. Still nothing.

Pulled off the black plastic piece that surrounds the pump. Had hoped the small brass plunger was stuck in the “in” position. It is not. Sprayed it w/a little WD40 but it seems to move in and out okay.

I turned the pump so that the opaque plastic bowl is on the bottom. Fluid level is at the halfway mark with the roof up. That tells me it’s full and not losing fluid (correct?) so no leak.

What am I missing???
 
Okay - so just stumbled upon a similar post by Raddys1 in Bedfordshire. Too bad I’m in the States.

When I attached the motor to the pump there was a drive pin inside. It was seated in a hole upon assembly.

The bypass valve seems okay. I am going to cycle it without the black plastic piece attached (should be okay, no?).

Maybe I gave up too quickly. I’m going to orient the pump so the lines are on the bottom and hold the button for awhile. I’ll see if I get any movement. Since I’m not sure which wire goes where at this point will have to try it wired both ways (any potential harm running it wired backwards?).

Other ideas, suggestions???
 
Ran the roof for a bit. At one point it opened about 6 inches then stopped. When I pressed the other button it slammed shut.

It wouldn’t move after that.

Checked the trunk and found some fluid. One of the lines was loose which I tightened. I now need to add more fluid so I’ll be back to it tomorrow.
 
Good luck with it. I’m about to do the same thing tomorrow as mine has just gone kaput. It makes a noise but will only open or close the roof if I give it a lot of help with my hand. It’s damned loud too.
 
Saturday update:

Attempted to add some CHF S11 with a small funnel. More fluid went around and all over the pump and motor than into it. I only had a little bit left (more arriving tomorrow) and then tried the roof. It unlatches and moves a bit (after a lot of whining) but won’t fully open unless I provide some assist. I’ll add more fluid Monday to see if that helps. Although I wiped the motor best I could, it’s nearly impossible to get all the fluid off. Then when I run the motor I can’t tell whether something is leaking or if it’s just the residual oil that I feel.

I’m wondering if I have a leak in one of the hydraulic lines. Is there an easy way to to check this? My best idea is to mark the level on the opaque reservoir and run it for awhile to see if the level changes…
 
Since you changed out the motor only, I can't tell you put the motor /pump together correctly. I know a lot of people have had issues with this.
I have not done this myself.

When the pump is in the trunk/boot keep yellow plastic part up (where the fluid is).

Is the fluid leaking where the lines are jointed to the pump??
 
I had the motor on and off 3x inside of 15 minutes to make sure it was right and the o-ring was properly seated. I can’t guarantee anything - but I think it’s correct.

At first I found one of the fittings where the hydraulic lines connect loose, which I tightened. One of the lines was kinked and I did my best to straighten. The pump is oriented with the reservoir up.

I’m going to see if I can find a small syringe to surgically add more fluid on Monday and then cycle the roof multiple times to see if it’s an air issue and/or if it’s leaking (if the reservoir level goes down).

Appreciate other comments - I’ll post again on Monday afternoon/evening.
 
Fill the reservoir up and mark the fluid level on the plastic reservoir bowl with tape/sharpie or something then then engage the red handle by-pass in the trunk/boot and manually move the top up/down 4 or 5 times. Although the system won't be fully pressurized, if there's a leak you should still lose some fluid. The pump is self-bleeding so cycling a few times should rule out air. However, if the fluid drops you already know that you have a leak.
 
Thanks for the suggestion. For some reason I do not have a red handle. The pump was replaced once before and the mechanic took the roof off - so I’m guessing if I had a red handle before then it was a casualty of the repair.
 
MX7 said:
Thanks for the suggestion. For some reason I do not have a red handle. The pump was replaced once before and the mechanic took the roof off - so I’m guessing if I had a red handle before then it was a casualty of the repair.
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Then simply get someone to hold the bypass plunger in while you move the roof
 
Well, this isn’t going as I had hoped.

After filling the pump reservoir about 1/2 way - I manually cycled the roof back and forth about 5-6x. I did not push in the bypass valve. By the last time I could not move the roof. I took this as a good sign, thinking that the air had bled out and I was now feeling the hydraulic resistance. Started the car and closed the roof for the night. It moves, but takes a while to get started and then moves very slowly.

This morning I refilled the reservoir and it took A LOT of fluid - about the amount to completely fill the reservoir. I filled it half way again. I currently have the battery out as I am drying the carpet under the pass seat (yaw sensor replaced a couple of days ago) - so no roof power until later today.

I don’t see any signs of fluid leaking - but I tried to look around the open roof into the rear fender well (where the pump resides) and I see some liquid there. Could be water - could be oil. I’m going to check the weep holes and see if something comes out.

Reminder that I only replaced the motor (disconnected from the pump) after pulling it into the boot. There should be no reason for that much air to be in the system. I’m guessing I have a line leaking - but where? I really DONT want to take the roof off. If that’s a must do at this point it’s going to the shop.

Are there any typical failure modes? For example, I have a Saab convertible (great car!) that sprung a leak. It was easy to find on the Saab forum that the cylinder in the first bow typically fails and there are several DIY instructions/videos to pull the cylinder for rebuild or replacement.

Appreciate everyone’s thoughts…
 
It’s the hinge(s). The pool of fluid in the well behind the passenger seat is green and oily. I’ve watched a couple of videos on removing the top - I probably could do it myself, but I have no place to store it (or the car) while the cylinders are being rebuilt. I’ll go see my local mechanic tomorrow to see if he can get me in. From what I’ve read I’ll probably have both cylinders rebuilt. The big decision I’ll have to make is if I replace the top while it’s out. The current one is water tight, but ugly and discolored from sitting outside forever. I’ll update this post once everything is complete.
 
Ok, It's the hinge lifter or the line where it plugs into the hinge lifter. The line has a metal fitting that can fail at this location.

If it's the hinge lifters REBUILD BOTH HINGE LIFTERS!!

Since the top is watertight you might get away by simply drying it. It will save you some $$$. I've seen before and after pic's of Z4's posted on various Z4 Forums whose tops had been dyed. I believe these were all black colored tops and the after pictures looked really good. However, I've never done this myself and am just posting it so you'll know you might have another option other than a new top. It's something to possibly consider and explore
 
Thanks for the suggestion. I did read someone’s post where they said they dyed the top - will definitely look into that.
 
Apologies if this is a repeat…

Went to see my mechanic this morning. Unfortunately he flew back “home” to Germany last night for two weeks. The mechanic I spoke with said they are backed up about a month and aren’t taking any new work until the owner is back.

Chatted him up a bit and he said they wouldn’t fully remove the top to replace the hinge cylinder. I don’t see how that is possible. Perhaps he meant they would do everything to enable removal, but leave it in place and simply try to lift up the one side to remove the hinge? Watching videos of the removal shows that the rear section needs to come forward to remove - I don’t see how that works. Does anyone know if it’s possible? If yes I’m going to do the work myself. If enuff_zed is correct (as he often is) and it’s a hose - does that preclude a repair without removing the top? The leak (at least one of them) is definitely on the pass side and the pump is on the driver side, meaning the hose needs to run completely across the car.

Any advice/suggestions greatly appreciated!
 
MX7 said:
Apologies if this is a repeat…

Went to see my mechanic this morning. Unfortunately he flew back “home” to Germany last night for two weeks. The mechanic I spoke with said they are backed up about a month and aren’t taking any new work until the owner is back.

Chatted him up a bit and he said they wouldn’t fully remove the top to replace the hinge cylinder. I don’t see how that is possible. Perhaps he meant they would do everything to enable removal, but leave it in place and simply try to lift up the one side to remove the hinge? Watching videos of the removal shows that the rear section needs to come forward to remove - I don’t see how that works. Does anyone know if it’s possible? If yes I’m going to do the work myself. If enuff_zed is correct (as he often is) and it’s a hose - does that preclude a repair without removing the top? The leak (at least one of them) is definitely on the pass side and the pump is on the driver side, meaning the hose needs to run completely across the car.

Any advice/suggestions greatly appreciated!
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I would certainly aim to replace just the pipe first.
With the motor in the trunk it is pretty straightforward to follow the pipe around the rear of the roof frame and unclip it as you go.
When you get to the right side you simply need to remove the trims from the b-pillar to access the ram bolts, then remove the horribly designed rubber seal (believe me, refitting that correctly is your biggest challenge).
Pop the retaining clips that hold the loom in place, so you have slack to lift the ram.
Undo the 10mm bolts holding the roof frame from the right side round to about halfway.
Prise out the rubber seal from that side of the roof frame.
Then, with the roof unlatched but only back a few inches to give some slack, lift the ram up until you can support the bottom of it on the top of the B-pillar frame. As you do this you need to pull it forward a bit and pull the rear frame out and forward. Plenty of rags to prevent damage to the paintwork.
Once it's all out in the open you can see the bottom pipe.
Be warned, the retaining screw is made of cheese! It is a Torx 10 head but you really do need to be careful not to round it off.
 
enuff_zed - once again thanks for your advice/guidance. I’ve read and re-read what you’ve written above, trying to visualize each step, but I don’t think I have enough clarity (yet) to take this on. Maybe once I get going it will be more straight-forward. For now I’m going to mull it over a bit - see if I can find a video online - and consider jumping in early next week. I hate to get started and then get stuck along the way. Nothing more embarrassing than bringing the car to the mechanic after a poorly attempted repair job. I really don’t want to go there and say “I tried to take it apart but didn’t know what I was doing so - here - you fix it”!
 
MX7 said:
enuff_zed - once again thanks for your advice/guidance. I’ve read and re-read what you’ve written above, trying to visualize each step, but I don’t think I have enough clarity (yet) to take this on. Maybe once I get going it will be more straight-forward. For now I’m going to mull it over a bit - see if I can find a video online - and consider jumping in early next week. I hate to get started and then get stuck along the way. Nothing more embarrassing than bringing the car to the mechanic after a poorly attempted repair job. I really don’t want to go there and say “I tried to take it apart but didn’t know what I was doing so - here - you fix it”!
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Where are you?
Fly me out.
Simple. :D
 
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