Chinese steel
- Thread starter ronk
- Start date
Yep cheap and nasty poor quality nut bolts coil springs etc............
The government has to take charge of the situation and not let it die a slow death ,if this means a bail out like they did with the banks.Then when the market picks up ,sell it.Once the steel works shut down and the workers leave ,skills that are unique to steel production will be lost forever and that will be the end of steel making in the UK.
Marky Mark said:
The proof of the pudding, as they say.. :wink:
http://www.tatasteeleurope.com/en/news/news/2014/2014_aircraft_carrier
As some one who has worked in and around the ship building and reffitng world all my life this could be the thin end of what's left of the the wedge there too.
In their defence, I see that the Chinese steel industry is publicly owned which means they can undercut the private sector by miles it also means there are no fat cats taking huge chunks of money out of it.
Quite a good idea to have a business publicly owned with no profit margins to meet in order to fund private investors.
Maybe we should have a public owned Steel Industry, oh, I forgot, we did own it until the Tories privatised it as well as the Coal Industry and Ship Building Industry. Great idea that was at the time hey?
Tories in charge when they sold them off and now in charge as they sell them down the river.
As somebody said today on Radio 2, if these workers wore shirts and ties, like the Banking Industry, the Gov't would be falling over themselves to bankroll them in order to save their jobs/industry. Wear a boiler suit/overalls and they turn their back on them.
Blame the Gov't that screwed our publicly owned companies over when the going got tough, not the Chinese who can make and export steel without lining the pockets of those in suits.
Quite a good idea to have a business publicly owned with no profit margins to meet in order to fund private investors.
Maybe we should have a public owned Steel Industry, oh, I forgot, we did own it until the Tories privatised it as well as the Coal Industry and Ship Building Industry. Great idea that was at the time hey?
Tories in charge when they sold them off and now in charge as they sell them down the river.
As somebody said today on Radio 2, if these workers wore shirts and ties, like the Banking Industry, the Gov't would be falling over themselves to bankroll them in order to save their jobs/industry. Wear a boiler suit/overalls and they turn their back on them.
Blame the Gov't that screwed our publicly owned companies over when the going got tough, not the Chinese who can make and export steel without lining the pockets of those in suits.
Maybe the processes and modern developments mean that the steel will be of better quality?
paulgs1000 said:
I'd forget the quality question it's a bit of a red herring. Steel is a staple of many a manufacturing process. You need it like we need air. Or dare I say refined oil. Once one group has undercut the others then they will have a monopoly on it and for sure the price will go back up. Briton was Great, at doing this in the 18th century :roll: .
I believe the quality is there in Chinese steel as quite a few car manufacturer's have been using them for quite some time.
Hence the pressure from these car manufacturer's to the Gov't claiming their losses in terms of jobs/profit etc...far out weighs the Steel industry losses if they imposed sanctions/levies on the Chinese steel imports.
It's all to complex for me but what I do know is that the employees of Tata have had nothing but praise for the owners since they took over 9+yrs ago. The employees anger is directed towards the Gov't for letting the industry die a death over the years.
Hence the pressure from these car manufacturer's to the Gov't claiming their losses in terms of jobs/profit etc...far out weighs the Steel industry losses if they imposed sanctions/levies on the Chinese steel imports.
It's all to complex for me but what I do know is that the employees of Tata have had nothing but praise for the owners since they took over 9+yrs ago. The employees anger is directed towards the Gov't for letting the industry die a death over the years.
maxman said:
Not a chance, whether blue or red they wouldn't let s**t happen in London.
Hence the bank bailout.
Just look where most of the Steel industry is based doesn't mean a thing to this London centric government (s).
So much for creating a Northern power house.
nb67 said:
well said mate
Missing the point a wee bit ...........
British steel is losing money because of the Geen Tax it has to pay on the huge amount of energy it uses ......
This is totally in control of the westminster government .....
German steel for example, does not pay this, neither does France or in fact nor do any of our european competitors.
Our westminster government can control import of cheap dumped chinese steel but chooses not to ......
Germany, France etc do control this.
If British Steel is in trouble, it is because people in Westminster have chosen for it to be so ...... and if you need prrof of that, Corbyn just asked for parliament to convene to deal with the crisis and Cameron said ......... no.
Dig deeper and Im certain you will discover a lot of fingers in a lot of pies ..........
British steel is losing money because of the Geen Tax it has to pay on the huge amount of energy it uses ......
This is totally in control of the westminster government .....
German steel for example, does not pay this, neither does France or in fact nor do any of our european competitors.
Our westminster government can control import of cheap dumped chinese steel but chooses not to ......
Germany, France etc do control this.
If British Steel is in trouble, it is because people in Westminster have chosen for it to be so ...... and if you need prrof of that, Corbyn just asked for parliament to convene to deal with the crisis and Cameron said ......... no.
Dig deeper and Im certain you will discover a lot of fingers in a lot of pies ..........
not an opinion but more of an idle thought......
I wonder what our steel makers think of people who shop at Aldi or Lidl and put workers at tesco and morrisons at risk?
Or if they buy clothes from Primark rather than marks and spencer
Or drive a Dacia, Kia, hyundai
????????
I wonder what our steel makers think of people who shop at Aldi or Lidl and put workers at tesco and morrisons at risk?
Or if they buy clothes from Primark rather than marks and spencer
Or drive a Dacia, Kia, hyundai
????????
Part of our family business is an electrical steel stockholder, which is a specialised steel for use in transformers, electric motors, generators etc. Our steel is in the linear motors used in most of the major attractions in theme parks around the world, transformers and generators on railway lines, the underground mines etc.
The reality with Chinese steel is that the quality is good enough to meet the standards required. It couldn't be used otherwise. Each coil of steel comes with test certificates, chemical composition breakdown, etc, etc. It couldn't be used otherwise. Plus, It's not just the Chinese importing cheap steel, they just seem to be the ones chosen for the "blame".
So what can be done about these cheap imports? Well manufacturers constantly try to reduce costs due to consumer demand. So they buy the cheapest.
We, personally, buy most of our steel from Germany (the uk doesn't produce the material we use) but do you think BMW buy cheap China steel? Nope. Cheap Chinese electric motors? Nope. I've discussed this with a number of Germans whilst in Germany. The best description was "if a German walked into a shop and could buy a German produced item or an identical one made in China, they would buy the German product, even if it cost more".
Thats where we differ as a nation from a country such as Germany.
It's not just as simple as "ban Chinese steel", unless the manufacturers who do buy Chinese steel can accept raw material price increases that they can pass on to the consumer. Very doubtful. Or maybe they would just move their business abroad.
The answer is to make the product more inline price wise and a change of consumer attitude but that's unlikely.
The reality with Chinese steel is that the quality is good enough to meet the standards required. It couldn't be used otherwise. Each coil of steel comes with test certificates, chemical composition breakdown, etc, etc. It couldn't be used otherwise. Plus, It's not just the Chinese importing cheap steel, they just seem to be the ones chosen for the "blame".
So what can be done about these cheap imports? Well manufacturers constantly try to reduce costs due to consumer demand. So they buy the cheapest.
We, personally, buy most of our steel from Germany (the uk doesn't produce the material we use) but do you think BMW buy cheap China steel? Nope. Cheap Chinese electric motors? Nope. I've discussed this with a number of Germans whilst in Germany. The best description was "if a German walked into a shop and could buy a German produced item or an identical one made in China, they would buy the German product, even if it cost more".
Thats where we differ as a nation from a country such as Germany.
It's not just as simple as "ban Chinese steel", unless the manufacturers who do buy Chinese steel can accept raw material price increases that they can pass on to the consumer. Very doubtful. Or maybe they would just move their business abroad.
The answer is to make the product more inline price wise and a change of consumer attitude but that's unlikely.
Well guys I have been reading some of the comments on here with great interest. I work in the Steel Industry in the UK and have done so for the last 32 years, British Steel, Corus, Tata and next, who knows. I have lots of personal views on the happenings occuring to our Steel industry but don't really want to air them on here, sorry guys. Steel has historically gone through cycles of ups and downs, usually approx every 7 years or so. This time it is different we have been in the "down" a whole lot longer than normal. To be honest a lot of your comments are correct, it is not just one thing that has affected the industry but the collection of many, Global Downturn in heavy manufacturing, high raw material costs, lack of decent investment in ageing plants, unfair ECO Taxes, high energy costs and yes the dumping of cheap imported steel along with distinct lack of interest from our Government all of these and many more are affecting this country's Steel Producing Industry.
I do not know what is going to happen but if the Scunthorpe Works were to close the town will be devastated . It means so much to the whole community and the amount of other businesses that what be affected is unthinkable from the small engineering firms, contract manpower companies, plant hire companies down to the butty wagons, cafe's and newsagents that pick up passing trade from Steelworkers on their way to/from work .
Just a little addition on a personal note, There has been a member of my family working on these Steelworks since the 1870's my Great Great Grandad came here from South Wales to work on the "New Steelworks". So it looks like we maybe here from beginning to end. I hope not...
If you've taken the time to read this.........thankyou....
I do not know what is going to happen but if the Scunthorpe Works were to close the town will be devastated . It means so much to the whole community and the amount of other businesses that what be affected is unthinkable from the small engineering firms, contract manpower companies, plant hire companies down to the butty wagons, cafe's and newsagents that pick up passing trade from Steelworkers on their way to/from work .
Just a little addition on a personal note, There has been a member of my family working on these Steelworks since the 1870's my Great Great Grandad came here from South Wales to work on the "New Steelworks". So it looks like we maybe here from beginning to end. I hope not...
If you've taken the time to read this.........thankyou....
Just my 2cents, the U.K. Gov and heads of industry are to blame for this, letting a once skilled industry slowly whittle away, then foreign owned, then subsidied/offshored, only to leave the uk as a consumer while paying through the nose...
This pattern is going to repeat itself across many industries, but the same civil servants and industry heads won't give a s**t because they have their fortunes and salaried/pensions to live off...
Or am I too sceptical
This pattern is going to repeat itself across many industries, but the same civil servants and industry heads won't give a s**t because they have their fortunes and salaried/pensions to live off...
Or am I too sceptical
Sae said:Just my 2cents, the U.K. Gov and heads of industry are to blame for this, letting a once skilled industry slowly whittle away, then foreign owned, then subsidied/offshored, only to leave the uk as a consumer while paying through the nose...
This pattern is going to repeat itself across many industries, but the same civil servants and industry heads won't give a s**t because they have their fortunes and salaried/pensions to live off...
Or am I too sceptical
No your not too sceptical, far from it. Don't even mention Pensions they've already robbed us of that one.......