Changing Pagid brake pads (street <-> track)? Good idea?

Franzino

Active member
I have a Z4M roadster equipped with a full AP racing kit. For now; I have Pagid RS 4-2 (blue) on them as a kind of dual purpose pad for track and street. On track they work ok (really hard intensive track work is a little too much for them), but the blue ones make a lot of noise on the street. I'm getting really annoyed by it and tried everything to make them quiet! Is it ok to fit the Pagid RS14 (black) for trackdays and change back to the street friendly Pagid RS4-2-1 (also black) for normal and quiet street driving? It's really easy and fast to change the brake pads on a AP racing caliper.

These brake pads are both from Pagid; but is mixing the two different compounds on the AP rotors not a problem and make the brakes preform less then sticking to one compound? The Pagid RS-14 are ceramic based and the Pagid RS4-2-1 are carbon based. Is it ok to mix those two compounds when you change brake pads for street and track? Or would it be better to use RS 4-2-1 (black) for street and change them for RS 4-4 (orange) for trackdays, because they are both carbon based?
 
i guess in essence this was the point with a BBK, pad changes are so easy you could lot them in in no time, infact it takes longer to get the car in the air and get the wheels off....

why not try APs own pad for the street, which will be quiet and cheap and go all out on a dedicated track pad, one that surpasses the blue even.....
 
Beedub said:
i guess in essence this was the point with a BBK, pad changes are so easy you could lot them in in no time, infact it takes longer to get the car in the air and get the wheels off....

why not try APs own pad for the street, which will be quiet and cheap and go all out on a dedicated track pad, one that surpasses the blue even.....
Indeed this was basically the idea; get a really dedicated track pad (like the RS-14) with more initial bite and better high temperature handling then the RS4-2. I drove a M3 with RS-14 and I really liked them (when hot). The reason I wanted to stay with Pagid and choice the street friendly RS4-2-1 (black) as a street alternative is because they told me changing brake pad compounds on the same rotors is not such a good thing for the brake performance. I thought staying with same pad manufactures would maybe be better? AP racing own brake pad would indeed be ideal for the street.
 
ap have always told me mixing pads on rotors is bad but ive always done it and never noticed an issues..... pad desposits wear off anyway so.... the huge plus for the AP pads is they are the perfect size so they sweep edge to edge of the rotors..... im sure the pagids are alittle smaller....
 
Beedub said:
ap have always told me mixing pads on rotors is bad but ive always done it and never noticed an issues..... pad desposits wear off anyway so.... the huge plus for the AP pads is they are the perfect size so they sweep edge to edge of the rotors..... im sure the pagids are alittle smaller....
That last remark is correct!
 
After some research...the conclusion is that it is possible. Found some good "how to" info

FAQ #4: What precautions must be taken when switching from street pads to track pads?
If you are changing pad compounds, such switching from street pads to track pads, you need to remove all of the material on the rotor and replace it with a fresh transfer layer of material from the new pads. To be honest, rotors do not like to have different compounds used on them, and virtually all rotor and pad manufacturers recommend that you do not swap pad compounds on the same rotors. The reality is, however, that most customers don't have two complete sets of rotors, so here are our recommendation for managing compounds between track and street use. Note that diligent bedding-in is the key.
When switching from street pads to track pads, one needs to make sure that as much of the street compound is removed from the rotor as possible before aggressive track use. The risk here is that any street pad material remaining on the rotor will be subject to deterioration from overheating. This can ultimately cause severe vibrations due to uneven pad deposits (a smearing of the street pad material on the rotor face).
A common method for removing street pad material is to install the track pad prior to driving to the event. Because most track pads operate in an abrasive mode during regular street operation, driving them to the track will wear off any existing brake pad material en route. You will know when the street pad material is gone by the squealing noises coming from your brakes after a short while…

FAQ #5: What precautions must be taken when switching from track pads to street pads?
Many people make the mistake of thinking that because they have a used set of pads in the past that the system does not need re-bedding when they are re-installed. Remember, the same material must be adhered to the rotor as the pad running against it for effective braking. Race pad material must be removed prior to street use.
Since you're not as likely to overheat the rotors on the street after a track event, over time the street pads will remove and replace the track pad material on the rotors naturally. However, the best solution where street pads are being put back into service after a track day is to follow the original bed-in procedure for the street pads after the swap.

FAQ #6: Do I need to bed-in new pads if I do not change pad compounds?
Although you do not typically need to establish a fresh transfer layer for a new set of pads if they are of the same compound as the previous set of pads, there is still a need to mechanically seat the pad face to the rotor face. Because the pad and rotor wear together as a matched set, by the end of a pad's useful life the rotor face is usually not completely flat. Consequently, when installing new pads on a used rotor, there is a small window of time in which the new pads will rapidly wear down against the peaks and valleys of the existing rotor face. This process of re-establishing the wear interface is often referred to as burnishing.
At the same time, new pads may need to be heated and cooled a few times before hard use in order to burn off all of the residual manufacturing resins and excess binding agents present in the pad compound. This process ensures that the exaggerated fade present in new pads (the “green” fade) is not experienced at speed when they are needed most. Unfortunately, this process of heating and cooling the pads is commonly referred to as bedding-in even though it has nothing to do with establishing a transfer layer. Gassing-out is a more appropriate term for this process.
So, while establishing a transfer layer is not necessary with new pads of the same compound, performing a bed-in procedure will serve to establish the wear interface as well as to expose the pads to their green fade in a controlled environment. For this reason, we recommend performing a formal bed-in any time rotors, pads, or both are changed, regardless of pad compound or rotor manufacturer.
 
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