Chamois / Shammy Leather

J

Jaw

Active member
So, I'd never use a shammy on a car's paint.. BUT sometimes use them on certain interiors to remove fluid if the surface is a little rough and might pull bits off a microfiber and leave lint.

But I've had so many enquiries in the shop asking if I sell them though and generally not from detailing types - I wondered if anyone out there still really uses them?

A couple were older gents so I figured it might be habit but was surprised with the amount of younger people asking in the last month and then not being convinced on buying a water magnet or similar.. specifically chasing chamois - am I missing something? is there something else people are using them for? or do the uninitiated still use them on their cars
 
After converting to Microfiber a few years ago I'm beginning to doubt the hype TBH.

Regarding chamois damaging paintwork because they trap grit/dirt on the flatter surface of the material, this seems VERY theoretical TBH. If I've washed and rinsed my car properly why is there dirt and grit on the surface? Chamois has a knap side (rough/fluffy) which would also 'hide' any rogue particles just as well as a mushy micro', bottom line is if you have left gritty stuff on the surface whatever you use will buff in scratches. I previously used chamois for decades and don't recall noticing damage.

Chamois leather absorbs six times it's weight in water, micro' is made of hydrophobic fibres that actually repel water. The micro' cloth works brilliantly for a couple of minutes but relies on trapping water between fibres, which explains why they start to streak after a couple of passes and have to be re-wiped. Chamois does a far better job first pass and keeps on doing so.

Both actually require proper maintenance, machine washed micro's don't seem to perform well after a few washes and apparently must not be washed with other materials. I've had a couple of my chamois for years and providing they are cleaned and dried properly still perform well. I'm 50/50 and would need to see some independent science before condemning the use of chamois, although the goats might disagree :)
 
i am a firm believer in the artificial Chamois , as Ewazix says its about clean and well rinsed bodywork, and they can be machine washed.
 
I use these now.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F123458089316

Chamois became expensive and very small.
 
Jaw said:
So, I'd never use a shammy on a car's paint.. BUT sometimes use them on certain interiors to remove fluid if the surface is a little rough and might pull bits off a microfiber and leave lint.

But I've had so many enquiries in the shop asking if I sell them though and generally not from detailing types - I wondered if anyone out there still really uses them?

A couple were older gents so I figured it might be habit but was surprised with the amount of younger people asking in the last month and then not being convinced on buying a water magnet or similar.. specifically chasing chamois - am I missing something? is there something else people are using them for? or do the uninitiated still use them on their cars
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Unless you always dry your car in the stillest, driest weather conditions you will always collect dust or grit on a wet car. Thick absorbent microfibre is by far the safest. I use these - https://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/pb-luxury-drying-towel - It is true that Microfibre cloths and towels should only be washed with other microfibre cloths at a low temperature with a special liquid detergent, something like this - https://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/pb-micro-restore Like everything else, there are cheap microfibre cloths and expensive ones. You will not get quality at the low end and they won't last well.

I agree with you OP that parents and grandads might be still passing down the message that 'a good chamois leather can't be beaten'.
 
i still use a leather shammy without problem.
but then i still use one of these too, call me old-fashioned... :lol:
razor.jpg
 
Well I had always used a sponge and chamois until a couple of years ago when I got my current Z4. The paint looked so good I stumbled onto this part of the forum and invested in a micro-fibre wash mitt and micro-fibre towel! :lol: :?

But as Ewazix said it takes a lot more passes to get paint dry with micro-fibre.

BeeEmm said:
Unless you always dry your car in the stillest, driest weather conditions you will always collect dust or grit on a wet car. Thick absorbent microfibre is by far the safest.
Click to expand...

Then this had me wondering - if you collect dust/grit on a wet car, surely whatever you dry it with is going to draw the dust/grit across the paint?
 
Mr Tidy said:
Then this had me wondering - if you collect dust/grit on a wet car, surely whatever you dry it with is going to draw the dust/grit across the paint?
Click to expand...
That's where this comes in - https://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/metrovac-air-force-blaster - Touchless drying. Check your car in really bright sunlight or with an extremely bright light, if you have not dried correctly, you will see swirls. I see it on new cars in the showroom under the bright lights. Many salesmen have said, yes, but you will always see that under these bright lights. The cause of the minute scratches is usually someone 'dusting' the cars with a dry, thin microfibre. It all depends on what is an acceptable level to you. If you can dry the car in a garage or undercover, it will make a difference. A good ceramic coating will also help to reduce scratches when drying.
 
Ewazix said:
After converting to Microfiber a few years ago I'm beginning to doubt the hype TBH.

Regarding chamois damaging paintwork because they trap grit/dirt on the flatter surface of the material, this seems VERY theoretical TBH. If I've washed and rinsed my car properly why is there dirt and grit on the surface? Chamois has a knap side (rough/fluffy) which would also 'hide' any rogue particles just as well as a mushy micro', bottom line is if you have left gritty stuff on the surface whatever you use will buff in scratches. I previously used chamois for decades and don't recall noticing damage.

Chamois leather absorbs six times it's weight in water, micro' is made of hydrophobic fibres that actually repel water. The micro' cloth works brilliantly for a couple of minutes but relies on trapping water between fibres, which explains why they start to streak after a couple of passes and have to be re-wiped. Chamois does a far better job first pass and keeps on doing so.

Both actually require proper maintenance, machine washed micro's don't seem to perform well after a few washes and apparently must not be washed with other materials. I've had a couple of my chamois for years and providing they are cleaned and dried properly still perform well. I'm 50/50 and would need to see some independent science before condemning the use of chamois, although the goats might disagree :)
Click to expand...

Interesting point actually, because when you think about it microfibers can and do leave marks on paint too if you're not careful, especially after polishing. I tend to use a water-magnet style cloth - plush with essentially a layer of memory foam in the middle to suck up moisture rather than having to 'wipe'. Depending on how much time I have I'll then use an air drier to get the last bit off.

I think the general perception is that a MF will lift any residual dirt off as opposed to a chamois which might have less capacity to do so (less gaps). Has always been one of those things I've accepted without thinking too much about.

Will have to do a thorough side by side just out of curiosity I guess!

BeeEmm said:
Mr Tidy said:
Then this had me wondering - if you collect dust/grit on a wet car, surely whatever you dry it with is going to draw the dust/grit across the paint?
Click to expand...
That's where this comes in - https://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/metrovac-air-force-blaster - Touchless drying. Check your car in really bright sunlight or with an extremely bright light, if you have not dried correctly, you will see swirls. I see it on new cars in the showroom under the bright lights. Many salesmen have said, yes, but you will always see that under these bright lights. The cause of the minute scratches is usually someone 'dusting' the cars with a dry, thin microfibre. It all depends on what is an acceptable level to you. If you can dry the car in a garage or undercover, it will make a difference. A good ceramic coating will also help to reduce scratches when drying.
Click to expand...

Yep that's what I mean by air dry - I use something similar to that especially if not in my own car - the heat here in summer makes it a nightmare, Wash down the car and it dries almost as you go so I have to spray down and take it straight inside to dry.

The blowers are also great for getting water out of crevices that run as you polish :thumbsup:
 
BeeEmm said:
If you can dry the car in a garage or undercover, it will make a difference. A good ceramic coating will also help to reduce scratches when drying.
Click to expand...

Reading all this and in the absence of science to prove otherwise I don't think there is much in it, with pro-and cons either way between micro' and chamois. So BeeEmm is probably on the right track highlighting the need to make sure there is no grit and dust when drying and having a hard protected paint surface. In fact the 'hardness' of car paint is THE real issue. Paint hardness is (apparently) tested using something called a "pencil test" or DIN ISO 15184, a calibrated instrument is used to score paint surfaces with pencils of different hardness to evaluate the surface indentation. I think we really need to be focusing on products that coat the surface with a hard shell and 'fill' micro scratches, so maybe ceramic sounds like a good candidate?

http://www.fischer-technology.com/en/united-states/knowledge/application-notes/paints-varnishes-surface-testing/determining-the-surface-hardness-of-paint-coatingspencil-testing-vs-instrumented-indentation-testing/
 
Use a proper drying towel not a thin micro fibre (that doesnt hide any remaining dirt in its weave as you wipe) and a drying aid and it’s only takes one wipe to remove excess water.

I find the purple monster the best I’ve tried.

https://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/monster-microfibre-purple-monster-edgeless-xl

And of course using the flood method to rinse the car to reduce the amount of water to dry off the car.

Job done.
 
With a thick microfibre you can 'pat' the car dry. I haven't used one for years but I believe you have to 'drag' a chamois to capture the water. That is where the problem is with it.
 
When a car is washed your going to add thousands of micro scratches whatever you use. I use a big drying towel on the outside and an old school Halfords leather on the glass and interior.

If I only had the leather for some reason I wouldn’t think twice about drying the car with it. If you use a proper polishing compound every now and then you’ll be removing the micro scratches that either material will leave behind.
 
Always used a good quality Pittards chamois which works for me, only time I don't is in warm weather then use a drying towel, probem with towels and washmits is you can't actually see any inbedded dirt/grit. For washing I use a a Zymol sponge https://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/zymol-wash-sponge?UA-26518971-1 have done for years so its nice an easy to spot any bits of grit etc. I've never been convined by wash mits as any grit just works its way into the fibres to linger for another day. Use a 2 bucket method and keep an eye on the sponge and leather.

Tim.
 
Hmm, maybe I just need to let it dry naturally as I don't have a big hair-dryer! :rofl:
 
Drying a car does seem to have problems. Thinking 'outside the box' if your car is left parked outside why not clean/wash it while it is raining, then you don't have to worry about drying it :wink:
 
BeeEmm said:
Drying a car does seem to have problems. Thinking 'outside the box' if your car is left parked outside why not clean/wash it while it is raining, then you don't have to worry about drying it
Click to expand...

Well, because I'll get wet! :rofl:
 
You could always cover yourself with Jeremy Corbyn's coat!

I always get wet when I wash my car in the dry :D
 
BeeEmm said:
You could cover yourself with Jeremy Corbyn's coat.
Click to expand...

What! :o Someone might see me - I'd rather burn his coat and leave washing my car for a dry day!

I'd never want anyone thinking I was anywhere near as wet as Corbyn! :headbang:
 
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