Castle Combe track day advice

J

JSz4

Member
I've got a track day at Castle Combe next month and just wondered if anyone had any advice. I've done several track days there in the past, but not for a few years, and not in a Z4 (3.0i).

I imagine Quarry is 3rd gear, 4th along Farm Straight, down to 3rd for the Esses, up to 4th before or after Old Paddock and through Hammerdown, down to 3rd for Tower, hold 3rd for Bobbies, Up to 4th for Westway and through Camp and 5th before or after Folly, and down to 4th braking up Avon Rise before turning before the brow and braking again for Quarry and down to 3rd?

Which of the two lines do people prefer through Quarry, holding the car to the left after Avon Rise, compromising entry speed but opening up the corner and taking a late apex.. or taking a straighter line from Avon Rise towards the lights, carrying more speed and covering less tarmac but tightening the entry to Quarry?

Any features to be mindful of? I remember it being bumpy and the camber of Tower pulling the car wide at exit particularly.

Cheers for any advice
 
Tom_K will be able to advise, he's done a fair few trackdays at Combe, plus I believe a few races too! 8)
 
If they have race instructors available do a few laps then get an instructor to guid you then just before home time get him back in your car to see if you have improved

This is better than any car based upgrades

Did this when I had my Westfield Cadwell Park start finish and then into the left hander is flat out I only managed it a few time due to traffic and being scared but every time I had a confidence lift I regretted it as the car was more than capable just 130mph into what looks like in your head a 80 deg left hander where you can not see the exit in full is scary until you master it
 
Ed Doe said:
Tom_K will be able to advise, he's done a fair few trackdays at Combe, plus I believe a few races too! 8)
Click to expand...
Hah, yep I've got through a fair bit of dino juice there over the years!
JSz4 said:
I've got a track day at Castle Combe next month and just wondered if anyone had any advice. I've done several track days there in the past, but not for a few years, and not in a Z4 (3.0i).
Any features to be mindful of? I remember it being bumpy and the camber of Tower pulling the car wide at exit particularly.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you know what you are doing, but depending on how long ago you last went the track has got a little easier as it was resurfaced in something like 2015 taking out a lot of the bump into avon rise.
There are still bumps to be mindful of, apexes of the first of the esses, camp and folly (see below!)

JSz4 said:
I imagine Quarry is 3rd gear, 4th along Farm Straight, down to 3rd for the Esses, up to 4th before or after Old Paddock and through Hammerdown, down to 3rd for Tower, hold 3rd for Bobbies, Up to 4th for Westway and through Camp and 5th before or after Folly, and down to 4th braking up Avon Rise before turning before the brow and braking again for Quarry and down to 3rd?
Click to expand...
looks about right, I'm not sure what model you have but my gear selection roughly follows that in my M before I changed the final drive.
JSz4 said:
Which of the two lines do people prefer through Quarry, holding the car to the left after Avon Rise, compromising entry speed but opening up the corner and taking a late apex.. or taking a straighter line from Avon Rise towards the lights, carrying more speed and covering less tarmac but tightening the entry to Quarry?
Click to expand...
Personally I would try and keep the car straight and aim to shorten the corner. Pulling the car to the left after avon rise can be quite unsettling for the car and I'd say is one of the causes that contribute to that corner's reputation. I wouldn't say that it is faster either.

Have fun, as said, might as well take up some of the usually free 30 minute instruction most TDO's offer to familiarise yourself with it again.
Here's a video from a few years ago now lapping in the 1:15s, since then I've only just been able to drop below 1:15 so I'd say they are fairly representative laps for the car.
[youtube]nMrXWddpZwY[/youtube]
 
TomK said:
Ed Doe said:
Tom_K will be able to advise, he's done a fair few trackdays at Combe, plus I believe a few races too! 8)
Click to expand...
Hah, yep I've got through a fair bit of dino juice there over the years!
JSz4 said:
I've got a track day at Castle Combe next month and just wondered if anyone had any advice. I've done several track days there in the past, but not for a few years, and not in a Z4 (3.0i).
Any features to be mindful of? I remember it being bumpy and the camber of Tower pulling the car wide at exit particularly.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you know what you are doing, but depending on how long ago you last went the track has got a little easier as it was resurfaced in something like 2015 taking out a lot of the bump into avon rise.
There are still bumps to be mindful of, apexes of the first of the esses, camp and folly (see below!)

JSz4 said:
I imagine Quarry is 3rd gear, 4th along Farm Straight, down to 3rd for the Esses, up to 4th before or after Old Paddock and through Hammerdown, down to 3rd for Tower, hold 3rd for Bobbies, Up to 4th for Westway and through Camp and 5th before or after Folly, and down to 4th braking up Avon Rise before turning before the brow and braking again for Quarry and down to 3rd?
Click to expand...
looks about right, I'm not sure what model you have but my gear selection roughly follows that in my M before I changed the final drive.
JSz4 said:
Which of the two lines do people prefer through Quarry, holding the car to the left after Avon Rise, compromising entry speed but opening up the corner and taking a late apex.. or taking a straighter line from Avon Rise towards the lights, carrying more speed and covering less tarmac but tightening the entry to Quarry?
Click to expand...
Personally I would try and keep the car straight and aim to shorten the corner. Pulling the car to the left after avon rise can be quite unsettling for the car and I'd say is one of the causes that contribute to that corner's reputation. I wouldn't say that it is faster either.

Have fun, as said, might as well take up some of the usually free 30 minute instruction most TDO's offer to familiarise yourself with it again.
Here's a video from a few years ago now lapping in the 1:15s, since then I've only just been able to drop below 1:15 so I'd say they are fairly representative laps for the car.
[youtube]nMrXWddpZwY[/youtube]
Click to expand...


Thanks a lot for the advice! I last drove it 2013 so definitely before it was resurfaced, will definitely be mindful of bumps at Camp and Folly apex in particular, that must of been terrifying!! Got B12s which are fairly compliant on track thankfully.

I've a manual 3.0i, so 100bhp less, imagine 4th will be too high for Camp actually so will try 3rd as you did.

I'll give both Quarry lines a try but think the line you took looks the best compromise, the alternative line makes a challenging approach even more challenging and the wider Quarry entry is offset by having to slow the car more and cover more ground as you say.

Thanks a lot, hoping it stays dry! Last two track days I did were at a cold, damp and greasy Donington, before each session I dropped the pressures to 30/32, what would you recommend for a warm Castle Combe?

Did you find Combe hard on brakes? My 3.0i is my daily so I'm only using Bluestuff pads, the slightly larger front discs/calipers from E86, Brembo drilled discs, braided lines and ATE Type200 fluid but the brakes seem to overheat pretty quickly on track.

Great vid and good driving catching GT3 and Lambo which has about another 300bhp, love the sound of that S54!
 
PDJ said:
If they have race instructors available do a few laps then get an instructor to guid you then just before home time get him back in your car to see if you have improved

This is better than any car based upgrades

Did this when I had my Westfield Cadwell Park start finish and then into the left hander is flat out I only managed it a few time due to traffic and being scared but every time I had a confidence lift I regretted it as the car was more than capable just 130mph into what looks like in your head a 80 deg left hander where you can not see the exit in full is scary until you master it
Click to expand...

Thanks, I will do. As you say, way better value for money than car based upgrades, and really satisfying seeing improvement from a bit of advice.

Never been to Cadwell Park, definitely on my list to some day though, looks like good mix of corners but some really daunting ones, like that left hander!
 
JSz4 said:
Thanks a lot, hoping it stays dry! Last two track days I did were at a cold, damp and greasy Donington, before each session I dropped the pressures to 30/32, what would you recommend for a warm Castle Combe?
Click to expand...

Enjoy! On this point though, depends on what tyres your running though if you go for stock pressures hot you won't be far wrong and adjust from there. I would err on the side of slightly higher than lower though unless you want to ruin your tyres, Z4's not exactly a lightweight as standard. I was aiming for around 31/33 on the Zestino's I'm running.

Just don't make the mistake I made the first time and keep dropping pressure every time you go out. Should be able to drop it once straight after first hot run to what you want and leave it there, or make very small adjustments. If you drop pressures constantly before you go out again the tyres will be in a world of pain by the end of the day, :headbang: Make sure you do that adjustment straight away when you've come in. :thumbsup:
 
Just a word on brakes overheating - I ran stock callipers and discs on track for years with my ///M. I started with Yellowstuff pads (which delaminated when hot on one occasion), then later Bluestuff pads, DOT 4 fluid (ATE Superblue when it was available, then ATE Type 200), braided lines, brass calliper bushings and homemade brake cooling ducts. The only time my brakes overheated was when I forgot to turn off DSC. That was also the time when the Yellowstuff pads variously smoked and cracked (front) and delaminated (rear).
The DSC is very basic and tries to brake the inside wheels for every corner under track use. If you’re not switching it off, that might be what is causing your overheating problem.

There was one other occasion when my brakes overheated and I lost brakes altogether (the pedal hit the floor at 100mph approaching a 90 degree corner - fortunately, there was plenty of run off), but that was a combination of old fluid, an usually long session and doggedly chasing down a supercharged M3 with well over 100hp on me :oops:

In the end, I moved to an AP BBK all round due to a lack of consistency of pedal feel rather than ineffective brakes or an overheating issue per se.
 
AndyBeech said:
JSz4 said:
Thanks a lot, hoping it stays dry! Last two track days I did were at a cold, damp and greasy Donington, before each session I dropped the pressures to 30/32, what would you recommend for a warm Castle Combe?
Click to expand...

Enjoy! On this point though, depends on what tyres your running though if you go for stock pressures hot you won't be far wrong and adjust from there. I would err on the side of slightly higher than lower though unless you want to ruin your tyres, Z4's not exactly a lightweight as standard. I was aiming for around 31/33 on the Zestino's I'm running.

Just don't make the mistake I made the first time and keep dropping pressure every time you go out. Should be able to drop it once straight after first hot run to what you want and leave it there, or make very small adjustments. If you drop pressures constantly before you go out again the tyres will be in a world of pain by the end of the day, :headbang: Make sure you do that adjustment straight away when you've come in. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Thanks, running SSports, ok so maybe not too far off what I was running in the damp, 30/32? I assuming it'll be pretty hot.

That's useful to know, so drop them once after first hot run and then not again. Previously I was dropping them to 30/32 before going out each session
 
BMWZ4MC said:
Just a word on brakes overheating - I ran stock callipers and discs on track for years with my ///M. I started with Yellowstuff pads (which delaminated when hot on one occasion), then later Bluestuff pads, DOT 4 fluid (ATE Superblue when it was available, then ATE Type 200), braided lines, brass calliper bushings and homemade brake cooling ducts. The only time my brakes overheated was when I forgot to turn off DSC. That was also the time when the Yellowstuff pads variously smoked and cracked (front) and delaminated (rear).
The DSC is very basic and tries to brake the inside wheels for every corner under track use. If you’re not switching it off, that might be what is causing your overheating problem.

There was one other occasion when my brakes overheated and I lost brakes altogether (the pedal hit the floor at 100mph approaching a 90 degree corner - fortunately, there was plenty of run off), but that was a combination of old fluid, an usually long session and doggedly chasing down a supercharged M3 with well over 100hp on me :oops:

In the end, I moved to an AP BBK all round due to a lack of consistency of pedal feel rather than ineffective brakes or an overheating issue per se.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, I left the DSC on at the last two track days as it was damp, didn't see the DSC dash light flash but noticed the rear pads were lower than expected but hadn't associated it with the brake fade. The last dry track day I did was at Bedford and can't remember if I had the DSC on or off however the brakes seemed to fade after 3 or 4 laps so I switched from Yellowstuff to Bluestuff but know I need to make some cooling ducts like you have. Will make sure I remember to turn it off this time.

That was lucky to have the run off! Must of been fun chasing down M3 and really hard coming off track to let everything cool when get a challenge like that!
 
Mine wasn’t flashing either, but it intervenes anyway. It’s trying to be helpful!
I’m not sure that the brake ducts made a huge difference, but all of the small changes are additive.
The greatest change I found regarding braking was not directly related to heat management. Rather, it was changing from Eibach springs / stock dampers to KW Clubsports. By eliminating pitch under hard braking, I could brake much later into corners and then carry more speed through corners too. Ultimately, I suppose that does reduce the energy dissipated as heat and increases cooling by raising average speeds.
It’s a slippery slope once you start modifying a car - I have a list of things yet to do to mine even after 15 years of ownership :D
 
Seeing as I last did a track day there over 20 years ago in a tired MG Maestro I really can't offer anything useful!

But I still had a great time and I'm sure you will too. :thumbsup:
 
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