Car sim card, API connection to BMW Company servers and privacy

[enuff_zed]

[ref]Scubaregs[/ref], a minute ago you were pissing yourself, now you're entering the 'love tunnel'.
I'm not sure you know if you're coming or going?

Both mate, called multi tasking.

Gonna need a Jey-cloth methinks :roll:

 

[Scubaregs]

[ref]Scubaregs[/ref], a minute ago you were pissing yourself, now you're entering the 'love tunnel'.
I'm not sure you know if you're coming or going?

Both mate, called multi tasking.

Gonna need a Jey-cloth methinks :roll:

No way, these things have hidden chips in them, everyone knows that.

 

[enuff_zed]

Both mate, called multi tasking.

Gonna need a Jey-cloth methinks :roll:

No way, these things have hidden chips in them, everyone knows that.

Bit like my local take-away then. The effin' chips are always hidden!

 

[Nanu]

Just because your paranoid, it doesn't mean they are not watching you :lol:

 

[enuff_zed]

Just because your paranoid, it doesn't mean they are not watching you :lol:

I had prior information that you were going to say that. :wink:

 

[BeeEmm]

Hi everyone,

I would like to share some concerns about the way modern cars, including our Z4, are constantly connected to the car maker servers.
Pretty much all new cars have a sim card used for:
Sat nav and traffic information
Emergency breakdown assistance
Remote checks
BMW and many other car makers have started introducing permanent connections to their servers exposing some services that the car can access over the Internet (the set of services is called usually API, technically).
Modern cars have a sim card which the majority of the customers are not aware of, a microphone in the car for voice activated functions and remote assistance as a premium package.
In a nutshell, when we use our cars, the car maker can know everything that is happening in the car: speed, location and also potentially what we say in the car.

This to me is already disturbing enough and, if the car maker can have all this information, so can the Government should they want to legally force car makers to handle all this data for national security reasons or what not.
All the above has already happened for other sectors so I'm not discussing whether it's possible, legal or probable. If it can be done, it will be done.

My car dealer told me many times that when taking a new car for personal use, he and his colleagues switch off all the advanced features as they don't trust and don't approve this invasion of privacy.
The problem is that they cannot switch everything off, for example the sim card connection, unless you go fiddle with the wiring and/or hack the software.

Car makers seem to justify this by telling customers that they want to help drivers, forgetting that if you cannot drive a car properly without assistance of any sort, you should probably not have a driving license in the first place.
The reality is that this data is part of big data collected from other sources and it is used for real-time analysis of cars, traffic, routes, habits, and so on at the sole benefits of car makers and ultimately the Government.

Recently, an official communication from some Governments said that the new cars will have to have a black box and a kill switch to be used from the Law Enforcement.
Apart from the dangers of switching off the car remotely when the car is moving on the road and performing actions like overtaking, avoiding obstacles or else, the implementation sounds like a nanny state that considers you a 5 year old child incapable of having individual freedom and judgement, and wants to tell you when you can use the car, where you can use the car and at what conditions.

I am hoping people can see the shift towards a more and more centralized form of control in all aspects of our society, but sticking to the subject of cars that I have described above, has any of you thought about these problems and is anyone talking about this in the industry?
Are there associations of car drivers or car enthusiasts that are trying to put pressure on the Governments on this matter?

You are on here to 'have a laugh' If you think people reply because they are interested, then you really are disillusioned. People with comments like yours have been on this forum before, all have been 'Newbies', goodbye R Sole.

 

[enuff_zed]

Hi everyone,

I would like to share some concerns about the way modern cars, including our Z4, are constantly connected to the car maker servers.
Pretty much all new cars have a sim card used for:
Sat nav and traffic information
Emergency breakdown assistance
Remote checks
BMW and many other car makers have started introducing permanent connections to their servers exposing some services that the car can access over the Internet (the set of services is called usually API, technically).
Modern cars have a sim card which the majority of the customers are not aware of, a microphone in the car for voice activated functions and remote assistance as a premium package.
In a nutshell, when we use our cars, the car maker can know everything that is happening in the car: speed, location and also potentially what we say in the car.

This to me is already disturbing enough and, if the car maker can have all this information, so can the Government should they want to legally force car makers to handle all this data for national security reasons or what not.
All the above has already happened for other sectors so I'm not discussing whether it's possible, legal or probable. If it can be done, it will be done.

My car dealer told me many times that when taking a new car for personal use, he and his colleagues switch off all the advanced features as they don't trust and don't approve this invasion of privacy.
The problem is that they cannot switch everything off, for example the sim card connection, unless you go fiddle with the wiring and/or hack the software.

Car makers seem to justify this by telling customers that they want to help drivers, forgetting that if you cannot drive a car properly without assistance of any sort, you should probably not have a driving license in the first place.
The reality is that this data is part of big data collected from other sources and it is used for real-time analysis of cars, traffic, routes, habits, and so on at the sole benefits of car makers and ultimately the Government.

Recently, an official communication from some Governments said that the new cars will have to have a black box and a kill switch to be used from the Law Enforcement.
Apart from the dangers of switching off the car remotely when the car is moving on the road and performing actions like overtaking, avoiding obstacles or else, the implementation sounds like a nanny state that considers you a 5 year old child incapable of having individual freedom and judgement, and wants to tell you when you can use the car, where you can use the car and at what conditions.

I am hoping people can see the shift towards a more and more centralized form of control in all aspects of our society, but sticking to the subject of cars that I have described above, has any of you thought about these problems and is anyone talking about this in the industry?
Are there associations of car drivers or car enthusiasts that are trying to put pressure on the Governments on this matter?

You are on here to 'have a laugh' If you think people reply because they are interested, then you really are disillusioned. People with comments like yours have been on this forum before, all have been 'Newbies', goodbye R Sole.

Ah don’t upset him. We were enjoying the baiting

 

[Scubaregs]

Pity he left, I was wanting to ask if the earth was flat.

 

[Nictrix]

Quite a few comments about the OP being a newbie, hes been here for 6 years. :?

 

[Nanu]

Newish

 

[Roadster_Surrey]

Troll or not, he raised valid concerns, but looks like no one is bothered about vanishing privacy and being monitored all the time by "smart" devices.

I see no reason for BMW or other manufacturers to record all my movements. Yet, under the disguise of safety (SOS systems) and convenience (live traffic or other gadgets), we are.

Actually, this thread reminded me, that I shouldn't buy a new car and replace Z4 with something used without smart features. I was already looking at older models, pre-2017.

 

[enuff_zed]

A friend was involved in a serious accident in his new 3-series. On a back of beyond road at 3am. Emergency services were there in under ten minutes and managed to stop the severe bleeding in time. There’s one benefit for you.

 

[peng]

Troll or not, he raised valid concerns, but looks like no one is bothered about vanishing privacy and being monitored all the time by "smart" devices.

I see no reason for BMW or other manufacturers to record all my movements. Yet, under the disguise of safety (SOS systems) and convenience (live traffic or other gadgets), we are.

Actually, this thread reminded me, that I shouldn't buy a new car and replace Z4 with something used without smart features. I was already looking at older models, pre-2017.

On a somewhat brighter note; at least the data our BMW's send out (I assume) is going to Germany, which has some pretty strict laws on privacy.
I just hope BMW never gets hacked & the data of our cars is 'leaked', much like mail addresses, passwords, credit card data that is already 'out there' on the dark web.

Frankly I'd love to know what telemetry is being sent by our cars, not even sure if that information is available anywhere. I know IT companies such as Microsoft, Facebook, Google etc are being scrutinised for this kind of stuff... but I wonder if car companies are also?

 

[StanDiego]

On a somewhat brighter note; at least the data our BMW's send out (I assume) is going to Germany, which has some pretty strict laws on privacy.

My US government security clearance package was leaked twice a few years back, intimate details of my background, neighbors, family, etc. They probably even know the name of the girl who french kissed me at the movie theater when I was 11 years old. I don't believe my BMW data could be worse than that.

On the plus side, the government is footing the bill for fraud protection services.

 

[DMike]

My daily cars send out data and as backup, I’m carrying two phones and a company laptop with me. They’d better keep the collected data in a secure place, because if someone got access to it, even reviewing a fraction of it, they would get bored to death.

 

[enuff_zed]

I do see an element of irony that some (not all) of the people who complain about being tracked everywhere are the same people who are all over Facebook etc., telling everyone that they're are having a great two weeks abroad, oh and by the way burglars, my house is empty. :roll:

 

[Scubaregs]

Data, we were not even aware was data, has been collected and stored then used against against us for nefarious means for centuries.

It's called being married to a woman.

 

[BMW_User]

If it is a highly technically advanced aerodynamic washing machine I’d be happy to help. If it is just a basic model that any numpty can sort out then I suggest you try a bit of DIY.
But never forget we will all be watching you

The only thing you'll be watching is the telly sweetheart...

If you intend to keep this banter at an intellectual level it appears you’d better get some support in old fruit. I find it exasperating to try to enjoy a meaningful exchange with someone who has to resort to banal rubbish at the first sign of an intelligent response.
5/10 must try harder

The only rubbish is what you write. You need to learn how to respond. There are some examples of other members who have shared their views on the original topic without resorting to writing the rubbish that 5-year-old children like you like to write.

 

[BMW_User]

Well well, I do believe we have our very own little troll. One of the less intelligent ones alas, but hey still ours.
Unusual to see a troll in a tinfoil hat, so there is that I suppose.
I have a bike noob troll, great powers of observation.

No scumbags, is that your nickname? It's simply that you cannot keep the conversation at the serious level of my original post.
You don't need to reply if you don't know what to write.

 

[BMW_User]

I am hoping people can see the shift towards a more and more centralized form of control in all aspects of our society, but sticking to the subject of cars that I have described above, has any of you thought about these problems and is anyone talking about this in the industry?
Are there associations of car drivers or car enthusiasts that are trying to put pressure on the Governments on this matter?

As far as I know, nobody is putting pressure on the governments because they see it as a necessary evil to enable all of the safety features.

I'm far more worried about the growing number of smart devices in our homes that regularly ping US, Chinese, and Russian websites 24x7 to verify network connectivity. Many of those devices have firmware that is difficult or impossible to update to patch security vulnerabilities. Some are appliances that have a lifespan of 10-20 years and firmware updates will cease long before they are replaced. It's not outrageous to imagine that your smart coffee pot could one day be turned into a botnet client.

I also believe that many see it as a necessary "fate", but it doesn't have to be like that. As for the devices in your house that you've mentioned, you can certainly have an equivalent without connecting outside your house.
The car is a necessity and the Governments try to impose what they want forgetting that they are there to serve the people, not to rule the people.