Camber & Toe

S

scarlet-jester

Member
 Christchurch, New Zealand
Had new tyres fitted at the end of last week (225 45 17 Falken FK510) and as noted in this thread, I took the car for good long run to see how they performed. I had an alignment done at the same time and there was a fair bit of adjustment made around toe and camber – details are in the photos below.
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Once on the road it soon became apparent that these adjustments and or the new tires, have completely transformed the car and unfortunately for the worse! At speed it tracked all over the road and at times in a dangerous manner. The car has completely lost its sharpness when cornering at speed; there is no balance coming into corners, no feel for grip or balance until you have turned in at which point you again feel where the car is at for grip and balance. This is totally opposite to what it was like pre-new tyres and alignment; there was always a very strong sense of balance, grip and oversteer/ understeer. Genuinely feels like a completely different car.

So, a few questions around this to see if you guys can help me out and get her back to where she once was;
  • I have only replaced the rear tires, still have originals on the front, same sizes all round
  • Tyre outfit had her down as an E89 (as it was first registered in 2009); does this make any difference to what the camber and toe should be set at
  • No other changes to the car since old set up
  • Do you guys run any specific settings for toe and camber, or do you leave it up to the wheel fitters

I clearly need to make some changes, but I am unsure what they need to be ..... :headbang:

As usual, TIA
 
it doesnt help that you have not told us what your car is, only what it isnt - but at a guess i wold say its differant settings, for example i cant see a 2.0 having thr same setup as an M - so give us a clue eh ??
 
road warrior said:
it doesnt help that you have not told us what your car is, only what it isnt - but at a guess i wold say its differant settings, for example i cant see a 2.0 having thr same setup as an M - so give us a clue eh ??
Click to expand...

Ha! Thanks road warrior, a very valid point :D

It is a 2006 3.0 Si with M-sport suspension
 
The only alignment setting that has changed is front toe. Previously it was toeing IN a lot (if you trust the tyre place to set up their equipment correctly).

If it's wandering about at speed then that points to toeing OUT.

My guess: the tyre place screwed up and didn't place the equipment on the wheels correctly. Take it back.

Also, if you can, park up somewhere flat and level with the wheel straight ahead. Walk back 5m and see for yourself if the wheels are pointing in or out.
 
So did they align it as an E89 rather than E85, just because of its date of registration? Muppets! I don't know what the alignment differences are but I'll bet there's a few seeing as wheel offsets are different for a start. Main thing is that it clearly illustrates the guys that did it have little idea, or common sense. Think it needs to go back for setting against the correct data - hope you had it done locally and not when you were at your mum's.
 
Thanks guys.

Went and saw my mechanic and he advised as you guys have noted that it needs to be set for my car specifically. I took it back to the tire shop today and they got it back on the hoist and set it for an E85 with sports suspension and there is certainly some difference in the settings - E89 numbers first;
  • Rear camber: -2˚compared to -2˚.5'
  • Rear toe: 1.9mm compared to 2.3mm
  • Front camber: -0˚23' compared to -0˚57'
  • Front toe: 1.5mm compared to 1.5mm

Not a great deal of difference up front but a reasonable amount at the back. Now set up as it should be but unfortunately it will be a while until I can test it out in anger. Short drive home it did feel a bit better but hard to tell TBH. Guy tried to sell me a new set of front tires but even I could tell that was not the problem - I am sure it would be better overall, but not to extent I felt on Sunday. He also said with that set up it would wear the tires quicker, but hey ho, I would rather have the better handling any day.

Will update when I get it back on the open road
 
I always make sure I'm talking to the fella while he is doing it for info input
Did you have it tracked with the old tyres fitted or the new tyres fitted?
If old ones don't be concerned as they will have worn to the old setting and you will driving on "unused" parts of the tyre. It will be a different feel when you put the new rubber on to match the new steering setup.
 
Look at the original printouts - the only thing that changed in any meaningful way was the front toe.

Front toe is identical for E85/6 and E89.

They added 4mm of toe OUT. That's a massive change - and one that reduces straight line stability.
 
Liam22 said:
Look at the original printouts - the only thing that changed in any meaningful way was the front toe.

Front toe is identical for E85/6 and E89.

They added 4mm of toe OUT. That's a massive change - and one that reduces straight line stability.
Click to expand...
Maybe his last job was tracking up dodgem cars :rofl:
 
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