Calling electric car owners/leasers

[True-Blue]

Morning all, apologies in advance for the long post…

My company car lease finishes in October and I’m being hounded to order a replacement because of delivery times.

The ‘list’ is uninspiring and PUC costs have shot up, so whatever I do is going to cost.

There are only two types of vehicle available, plug-in Hybrid’s and full EV’s.

Of the Plug-in’s only one falls into a vaguely tax-friendly bracket (40% tax payer) and that’s the BMW 2 Series Active Tourer 225XE ‘Luxury’ spec. The only other plug in that are vaguely interesting for other reasons is the Cupra Formentor, and the KUGA - All the others are either crap or overly expensive (based on what I’m prepared to spend). All 3 of these are under £300 per month inc tax for high spec vehicles.

For tax reasons the EV’s seem to offer much better value over all, for example I could have a Volvo XC40 Recharge Core for a total cost of £280pm or a TESLA Model 3 or model Y for circa £372pm - I need a hatchback really, so the model 3 is out. The Tesla’s are not the long range versions, but the rear wheel drive version.

The only thing holding me back is the range/infrastructure issues. To give a bit of background, every 3 weeks I have to drive from Bristol to London Barbican (St Bart’s) and back, this is an indefinite requirement. The NCP we use has 1 charging point and I’m fairly certain none of the EV’s mentioned will get us all the way there and back on a single charge.

On this basis, I’d probably need to stop at Reading services and charge to full capacity to be reasonably confident of getting the rest of the way in and back home without needing to stop.

For those currently doing longer journeys, how cost effective is an EV in the real word compared to an efficient petrol?

My mileage rates are £8 per 100 miles for electric, £18 per 100 miles for 1.4+ petrol and £28 per 100 miles for over 2.0l petrol

How problematic is finding charging points that offer a fast charge?

Any owners of the Volvo or Tesla able to share a view?

Thanks all.

 

[Bottom]

I have a Model Y long range and an i3. Don't get the i3 (for this trip, for local stuff it's wonderful!).

Has to be the Tesla, the Supercharger network is a big USP.

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=fc17c520-e6f2-40e2-ba76-7bcedc65bb4b

You can play around with abetterrouteplanner to get a few different examples.

Superchargers are much much more reliable than the rest of the public charging network in my experience, but you aren't restricted to those, you can use any other charger too. Current rate is 54p off peak, 67p peak times (16:00 to 20:00)

You can work out how much it'll cost yourself, it'll depend on how much you're paying for your home electricity.

If you're driving in London electric is so much better in every way. You'll be amazed.

 

[True-Blue]

I have a Model Y long range and an i3. Don't get the i3 (for this trip, for local stuff it's wonderful!).

Has to be the Tesla, the Supercharger network is a big USP.

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=fc17c520-e6f2-40e2-ba76-7bcedc65bb4b

You can play around with abetterrouteplanner to get a few different examples.

Superchargers are much much more reliable than the rest of the public charging network in my experience, but you aren't restricted to those, you can use any other charger too. Current rate is 54p off peak, 67p peak times (16:00 to 20:00)

You can work out how much it'll cost yourself, it'll depend on how much you're paying for your home electricity.

If you're driving in London electric is so much better in every way. You'll be amazed.

Thanks for this, it looks interesting, but am I reading this right? Suggests 2hrs and 5mins from my postcode to St Bart’s - never ever got close to that even during first lockdown :?



If it’s that inaccurate can it be relied upon? Maybe I’m reading it wrong?

How do you find the Model Y? My 12 year old daughter is desperate for me to get one

 

[Bottom]

Dunno about the journey times, I'm guessing it doesn't take traffic into consideration. TBH I just used it to find a variety of charging stations

My 3 year old grandson thinks it's the coolest car in the world if that helps any!
Likes:
Refinement, it's very quiet at all speeds, beats my previous Range Rover Velar by quite a bit. Obviously no engine noise, not much wind noise, some tyre roar off poor surfaces but on good roads it's almost silent.
Seats are comfy for me (I'm 6'1 and my wife is 5'4) the car memorises your seat/steering wheel/door mirrors and other preferences and adjusts to whoever is driving.
Storage is on another planet, I've got 2 Golden Retrievers, they fit nicely in the boot, but I can also store a small suitcase below them, as well as another suitcase in the "trunk", then there's tons and tons of oddment space inside.
Tech is great fun, but auto wipers have a mind of their own (no worse than the ones on my Z4m but I expected better!).
Performance is silly, it'll leave pretty much anything dead from the lights and overtaking is a doddle, no changing down, waiting for revs or anything, signal, pull out, whoosh... :|
Full bore acceleration is a great party trick but actually hurts after a while, I don't do it much anymore.
Lane assist works well on DCs/Motorways, but I live in the Highlands so rarely get to use it.
Road holding is surprisingly good for a big car, steering is very sharp and turns in well.
Farts on cue (controlled by an Apple Watch if you have one) see above about 3 year old!

Dislikes. Smart cruise control occasionally has a fit because of a lorry coming the other way on our narrow roads. The aforementioned auto wipers. Lack of Apple Car Play, although to be fair the built in software is excellent. Very fast and responsive.
They're becoming a bit "common" now, I liked being a bit of an individual with my Z4m

HTH. Tesla are very good with test drives, go and get one for an hour and see what you think.

 

[Zedebee]

I’ve had an i4 on order since the summer, but I’m waiting with some trepidation :| . I often travel in my boss’s ePace (?) and it’s a stressful experience. The car itself is lovely but the charging network is highly irregular - in use, or not working, or card not working - and the next nearest is often miles off your route; and then you have to wait around to get enough miles on board; and it’s chuffing expensive, nearly as much as petrol in some places. Tesla drivers at work have mixed views - some like them, some don’t.

 

[pvr]

WIth Tesla you can get it for a 24 hours test drive no problem, my son did one of those to have a play with it. I have been in it (model Y) and it is very fast, the seats have no support what so ever so it is a slide show if you go around a corner at any speed (we never did that )

Tech - some bits were not working in the test car, no PDC for starters as that was not available until the next upgrade. Space is h-u-g-e .

It is fugly, no doubt about it. Cheap to buy / run I guess on a company lease with 2% BIK. Not for me though.

I have had an ID3 on order since 2020 so hopefully should have been manufactured a couple of weeks ago (VW terrible in updating status)

 

[Nictrix]

This doesnt help your dilemna but a friend has a model 3 performance and I have been a passenger in it a few times.
As others have said they are stupidly quick but after the smoothness and the acceleration is out the way the car itself is not really likeable.
As a passenger I found it an unusual and foreign place to be where simple things like adjusting the air vents or temp had to be done through the large ipad like screen that doesnt seem to be easy to navigate if you dont know what you are looking for.
From a users point of view, if my friend is anything to go by, the only reason to have it is that its cheaper than petrol/diesel but the amount of times he has complained about having to stop on a journey to recharge that adds an hour or so onto the journey instead of 5 minutes if refuelling with petrol/diesel, or turning up at chargers that dont work or are in use.
He will be changing his car soon and I do wonder if he will get another one or go back to petrol.
I couldnt be bothered with the hassle and hope I never have to.
I recently changed my car and quickly looked at the cost of Polestars. According to the calculator for 10,000 miles a year the car would need to be charged approx 27 hours a week using 2.3kw charger or 8 hours a week for 7.4 kw chargers, as opposed to 5 minutes in a fuel station every fortnight.
Any journey over 250 miles would automatically add at least an hour to the journey for charging and an 80% charge takes 2 hours.

 

[True-Blue]

Thanks for all the input everyone

I don’t think I can give up the ease and convenience of a petrol engine just yet, and I think reading some of the comments on here has brought this home.

This effectively reduces my options down to three cars (all plug in hybrids), the BMW 225xe active tourer, the Cupra Formentor or the Ford KUGA. There are others available but they’re either too basic (Belingo anyone!) or too expensive for what they are including tax

Cars like the golf aren’t on the list as the lead time is too long.

 

[TitanTim]

I don't know why you would even consider an electric car to be honest, cons I see are,

1) Way over priced for what you get.
2) Apart from the excelleration I can't see there is any real driving enjoyment, there's no visceral feeling that would make you want to go for a drive for the hell of it unless you go hybrid and have a spare 100k but then I imagine your average electric car owner see it as something to simply get you from A to B.
3) The charging infrastructure appears to me to be woeful, I expect once it catches up the game will have moved on. Range anxiety is perhaps not so much of an issue as this has improved with more efficient batteries but still who wants to hang around waiting for a car to charge up.
4) I'm not convinced it's as environmentally friendly as it's made out to be and is just as polluting but in different ways.
5) Wouldn't fancy trying to sell an electric car in 4 or 5 years time, poor residual values, potential iffy long term reliability.
6) I'm interested to know if the sales of electric cars was to suddenly take off in a big way whether I will be sitting in the dark of an evening as the lights dim when the masses plugs their car into the grid.

Ironically for me an electric car would pronbably make complete sense and will be looking to change one of my current cars in the coming months, budget around 26k but I can't see anything electric that would convince me to go for one as I would end up with something fairly basic in that price range

Tim.

 

[True-Blue]

I don't know why you would even consider an electric car to be honest, cons I see are,

1) Way over priced for what you get.
2) Apart from the excelleration I can't see there is any real driving enjoyment, there's no visceral feeling that would make you want to go for a drive for the hell of it unless you go hybrid and have a spare 100k but then I imagine your average electric car owner see it as something to simply get you from A to B.
3) The charging infrastructure appears to me to be woeful, I expect once it catches up the game will have moved on. Range anxiety is perhaps not so much of an issue as this has improved with more efficient batteries but still who wants to hang around waiting for a car to charge up.
4) I'm not convinced it's as environmentally friendly as it's made out to be and is just as polluting but in different ways.
5) Wouldn't fancy trying to sell an electric car in 4 or 5 years time, poor residual values, potential iffy long term reliability.
6) I'm interested to know if the sales of electric cars was to suddenly take off in a big way whether I will be sitting in the dark of an evening as the lights dim when the masses plugs their car into the grid.

Ironically for me an electric car would pronbably make complete sense and will be looking to change one of my current cars in the coming months, budget around 26k but I can't see anything electric that would convince me to go for one as I would end up with something fairly basic in that price range

Tim.

I wouldn’t with my own money.

In my case my current company car is due to back in October and I need to order something else as there’s no cash alternative via my employer. The current benefit in kind tax position means that I could get a higher-end EV than plug in hybrid for the same cost to me.

 

[TitanTim]

I don't know why you would even consider an electric car to be honest, cons I see are,

1) Way over priced for what you get.
2) Apart from the excelleration I can't see there is any real driving enjoyment, there's no visceral feeling that would make you want to go for a drive for the hell of it unless you go hybrid and have a spare 100k but then I imagine your average electric car owner see it as something to simply get you from A to B.
3) The charging infrastructure appears to me to be woeful, I expect once it catches up the game will have moved on. Range anxiety is perhaps not so much of an issue as this has improved with more efficient batteries but still who wants to hang around waiting for a car to charge up.
4) I'm not convinced it's as environmentally friendly as it's made out to be and is just as polluting but in different ways.
5) Wouldn't fancy trying to sell an electric car in 4 or 5 years time, poor residual values, potential iffy long term reliability.
6) I'm interested to know if the sales of electric cars was to suddenly take off in a big way whether I will be sitting in the dark of an evening as the lights dim when the masses plugs their car into the grid.

Ironically for me an electric car would pronbably make complete sense and will be looking to change one of my current cars in the coming months, budget around 26k but I can't see anything electric that would convince me to go for one as I would end up with something fairly basic in that price range

Tim.

I wouldn’t with my own money.

In my case my current company car is due to back in October and I need to order something else as there’s no cash alternative via my employer. The current benefit in kind tax position means that I could get a higher-end EV than plug in hybrid for the same cost to me.

If your company are forking out then I guess you might not have much of an option but to go electric? but as a private buyer pass

Tim.

 

[ronk]

On a day to day basis, an electric car would make perfect sense for our needs - the odd trip to the shops, picking up the grandchildren etc and add to that the PV panels it is a good bet.

However sometimes we need the car (not the Z) to go down country to see relatives in Bedfordshire - and the thought of spending an hour in a dirty A1 service area thrills me no end!!! Add to that we sometimes drive to see friends in a rural area near Hamburg, so the range anxiety is a real problem.
No doubt there will be charging points in the service areas but I don't want my hotel breakfast to be spoiled by the worry of finding a charge point before setting off the next day.

I might consider a self charging hybrid at some time in the future but not a full fat EV as yet.

 

[Dark Diggler]

We went to Edinburgh for Hogmanay, we had to queue at Gretna for nearly 2 hours to use charger, then wait for the car to charge. I witnessed what I would call charge point bullying from a bloke who was checking the charger info and glaring ay the people in their cars, he knocked on a woman's window and told her she was 80% full and should make way for the next car, he came near my window briefly but fortunately for him he f#@ed off sharpish.
We have an Etron with 180m range and it's fine 90% of the time but nearly 3 hours added to a 4 hour journey was tough to swallow.
On real time cost on the move, my caddy van does 60mpg if you drive it properly and has a range of over 600 miles, we "filled up" the Etron at a Glasgow supercharger on the way home which was £35 for 180 miles of range.

 

[earthdweller]

Just my tuppenth

My wife’s company has gone to a full EV co car fleet with a lot getting the Ford Mach-E

It seems that those that just commute to the office and essentially have a “perk” car love them as they charge at home and are saving huge amounts of tax

Those that are field based and have to cover huge areas including some the whole of the U.K. and have frequent nights away from home in hotels (3 or 4 nights some weeks) HATE them!

The whole public infrastructure just isn’t where it needs to be and it can be very expensive so much so that my darling wife was telling me that the EV’s are costing the company at least as much if not more to fuel than the ICE cars they replaced

My wife was saying she was with a colleague at a hotel in the midlands recently and they were staying at a hotel that apparently had chargers, it did but they had cars on them which seemingly guests ( or other randoms) had plugged in for the night and gone to bed (away) leaving fully charged cars plugged in till the morning

Because they needed to be up/out travelling early next morning the pair of them ended up driving round at 11pm in a town they didn’t know to find a random
Car park behind a closed restaurant and sitting in the dark in a deserted car park for three hours whilst the car charged

My wife went with her colleague, another girl, because she didn’t feel it was safe for her to be on her own late at night alone in a dark empty car park with an immobilised car in an unfamiliar town

That’s just one incident of several I’ve heard that are similar and because the business is healthcare related a lot of the field staff are female

It’s a massive change, my wife used to have a diesel Merc with a long range tank that would do 1100 miles between fills, handy when you could be doing twice that in a week!

Sure if the car suits your needs and you don’t do long journeys or need to use the public charging network then fine .. otherwise I really don’t think we are where we need to be for long distance use

 

[True-Blue]

Thanks for the input @earthdweller

I made a decision on this a week or so ago, and ordered a plug in Kuga.

Swore I’d never have another Ford, but it was the most logical option weighing up tax cost (8/9% tax bracket), claimable mileage rates (2.5ltr petrol), economy (Atkinson cycle engine - efficient despite size) and kit level (Vignale). In addition, the list was very limited with cars being removed and not added. I have to justify it to myself like this to feel positive about it

My employer doesn’t offer a ‘Cash’ option, it’s order a car… or don’t :|

I have my Zed for fun 8)

 

[earthdweller]

Thanks for the input @earthdweller

I made a decision on this a week or so ago, and ordered a plug in Kuga.

Swore I’d never have another Ford, but it was the most logical option weighing up tax cost (8/9% tax bracket), claimable mileage rates (2.5ltr petrol), economy (Atkinson cycle engine - efficient despite size) and kit level (Vignale). In addition, the list was very limited with cars being removed and not added. I have to justify it to myself like this to feel positive about it

My employer doesn’t offer a ‘Cash’ option, it’s order a car… or don’t :|

I have my Zed for fun 8)

Probably a wise move I reckon

My wife is mainly doing international travel now so she opted out of the company car scheme when her 3 series diesel came up for replacement and we bought her a Mini countryman diesel to run about in and use as an airport car

I think if I lived in a city and only did local driving I’d consider one but when you think a petrol fiat 500 is £13k and an EV one £30k it’s not that easy a decision to make with your own money

Eventually I suppose we’ll all have to bite the bullet but hopefully they can sort out the infrastructure before that happens

Kuga vignale will be a nice car I reckon

 

[pvr]

I bought the EV next to my other cars, and used my company to pay for it as it is so much cheaper to have it as a company car with private use. It is very nice to drive and I love that I have an independence from the next fuel strike.

Would I buy it as my main car? Absolutely not. With 270 miles range at 80% charge - it is good enough for me to run around in it locally for a week at neglible cost. I could not take it on my foreign trips as I cannot make my destinations without stopping and no idea where I could charge it without spending a lot of time searching and waiting for a charge. Besides the M is much more fnun abroad ....

 

[Ole gits rule]

My Bro in law had a Cuppa fomenter loaner work and he said it was pretty good, don't rule it out with going to view, they do look pretty good, better than a Kuga

 

[True-Blue]

My Bro in law had a Cuppa fomenter loaner work and he said it was pretty good, don't rule it out with going to view, they do look pretty good, better than a Kuga

Had a good look at them but higher tax bracket, and small turbo engine means much lower ‘pence per mile’ rate claimable compared to 2.5 Kuga when doing business mileage sadly. Company car is definitely a head over heart decision for me, and there were only about 12 cars on the plug-in list

 

[Ole gits rule]

My Bro in law had a Cuppa fomenter loaner work and he said it was pretty good, don't rule it out with going to view, they do look pretty good, better than a Kuga

Had a good look at them but higher tax bracket, and small turbo engine means much lower ‘pence per mile’ rate claimable compared to 2.5 Kuga when doing business mileage sadly. Company car is definitely a head over heart decision for me, and there were only about 12 cars on the plug-in list

same for most of us - no 330e or C class on the list