Buy now pay later, who owns the goods?

Argyll Andy

Argyll Andy

Elite
 Argyll & Bute
A bit of a strange one but wondering if anyone can shed some light on this as I’m not sure exactly how it works.

I’ve been looking for a higher end watch in a reasonably serious way for about 6 weeks and something has happened a few times but yesterday’s events got me asking the question.

EBay now has a full independent authentication process for watches over £2k so I’m comfortable buying from there. Yesterday I enquired about a new, unworn Breitling, all papers, boxes, receipt etc. Everything looks in order, but……… the watch had only been purchased a few day before and the advert said something like “change in circumstances forces sale” Now I’m perfectly happy to admit I’m a suspicious, cynical f@@ker and a watch with £800 off and a few days old brought that to the fore. I pushed the seller for details. One thing I noticed, and asked about, was there was only a partial view of the receipt, the payment method was hidden.

Long and short of it is he’s bought the watch on one of these buy now pay over 3/6 months things you get offered at checkout stage. I think he said Klarna. Now the cynical bit in me has no doubt I pay for the watch, get my shiny new watch, bar a few days, save myself £800 (or more as it’s a best offer sale) guy gets paid and has NO intention of paying Klarna.

My question, if anyone knows, is who owns the watch? It’s on credit, it is traceable because the watch will be registered using its unique serial number but, it’s gone through a full verification process to say it’s genuine and the money doesn’t get released to the seller unless the watch checks out 100%.

Afaik, there’s no finance register for watches like there is cars etc so is this just a case of he doesn’t pay Klarna and they pursue him for default on the credit agreement and the goods are in no way tied to the debt?

This is the third or fourth one that I’m aware of that I’ve come across that has been bought using this method and are still well within the payment plan period. I’ve no doubt there’s many more. Again my cynical bit is they buy the watch at £5k, don’t pay anything sell for circa £4K and they’re still £4K up per watch. I win, they definitely win and Klarna etc get shafted
 
BNPL is just a form of credit. It is not tied to the product at all. When he paid for the item he effectively entered into a credit agreement which is in no way tied to the watch.

What is more suspicious is he seems to have bought it online only a few days ago, and it is unopened.... why can't he just get his money back through distance selling regulations?
 
sp3ctre said:
What is more suspicious is he seems to have bought it online only a few days ago, and it is unopened.... why can't he just get his money back through distance selling regulations?
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That does seem strange, perhaps the seller purchased the watch with fake id, then they can sell it and never have to pay for it. £4k easy money

Quoting seems off again :headbang:
 
Purchasing stolen goods is a whole other ball game, if you have even the slightest worry then walk away.
At best you loose the item and your money, at worst you could end up inside.
If it smells like a dog, barks like a dog and lives in a kennel then chances are its a dog.
 
sp3ctre said:
BNPL is just a form of credit. It is not tied to the product at all. When he paid for the item he effectively entered into a credit agreement which is in no way tied to the watch.

What is more suspicious is he seems to have bought it online only a few days ago, and it is unopened.... why can't he just get his money back through distance selling regulations?
Click to expand...

It’s opened but unworn. The pictures on the advert are of the actual watch/receipt/warranty etc.

My guess is the “scam” is he gets the watch on credit, doesn’t return it because they would just cancel the credit agreement and gets paid from eBay.

My main concern was the watch may be recoverable against the debt
 
Chippie said:
sp3ctre said:
What is more suspicious is he seems to have bought it online only a few days ago, and it is unopened.... why can't he just get his money back through distance selling regulations?
Click to expand...

That does seem strange, perhaps the seller purchased the watch with fake id, then they can sell it and never have to pay for it. £4k easy money

Quoting seems off again :headbang:
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly or even just move address and hope the best doesn’t catch up with them any time soon. Probably declared bankrupt by the time the do anyway and start all over again.
 
Rockhopper said:
Purchasing stolen goods is a whole other ball game, if you have even the slightest worry then walk away.
At best you loose the item and your money, at worst you could end up inside.
If it smells like a dog, barks like a dog and lives in a kennel then chances are its a dog.
Click to expand...

The one thing I have no concerns about is that I’m buying stolen goods. The independent eBay authentication process takes all of that concern away. They’re employing an independent 3rd party company to check every watch over £2k to make sure it’s totally legit and that everything matches up, not stolen and the goods they’re examining are the actual ones in the advert. If there’s any discrepancies during that process the money is automatically returned to me.

I’m guessing it’s a quick way to get money by buying desirable and easy to sell goods on credit, turn them around very quickly and release a healthy % of the credit agreement in cash then defaulting on the credit agreement, the credit company takes the hit.

I remember a glut of new, unused bikes on the market when the cycle to work scheme was introduced and assumed it was people offloading an asset with the opportunity to repay slowly in small amounts. This time since the loss is quite large I’m assuming there will be a high percentage of non patm ent, or partial payment.
 
The finance company probably don't know its been stolen at this point and they won't till he misses the first payment.

I've just read through the Ebay Authentication web page - all they do is make sure the watch is what it says it is and that the one you bought is the one that gets delivered - there is no mention of checking if its stolen (unless I've missed it).
 
sp3ctre said:
Either way, the right thing to do is walk away
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Yeah that was my gut feeling right from the start hence the question. As I said this one was really highlighted because it’d been purchased so recently but by no way is unique in watches for sale just now. :thumbsup:
 
Rockhopper said:
The finance company probably don't know its been stolen at this point and they won't till he misses the first payment.

I've just read through the Ebay Authentication web page - all they do is make sure the watch is what it says it is and that the one you bought is the one that gets delivered - there is no mention of checking if its stolen (unless I've missed it).
Click to expand...

That’s partially my point, is it stolen if he used his own details and defaulted on the credit agreement. To me that’s not stolen that’s a debt issue between the seller and Klarna and my original question, is the watch attached to the debt. If he’s used someone else’s details absolutely is theft/fraud

I’m quite possibly wrong about the stolen check element of the eBay scheme, been reading that many t&c’s there’s a high possibility it was on someone else’s site :lol:

Might just need to buy another Zed instead
 
Regardless of the legal position of the watches ownership, there is a moral consideration surely - I couldn't wear a £2k watch if I suspected it had been gained through questionable ethics. I'd walk away.
 
Why have any potential hassle? You are already questioning the purchase and that's your instincts telling you to give it a wide berth.
 
Andy, just walk away, he may have bought a genuine watch bit also a bunch of fakes to sell on to make. quick buck.

If you want a watch like that - go to watches os Switzerland and buy one on a 12 or 24 month finance package - at least you know its real and will have no issues.
 
Thanks all for your input, as I said my gut feeling was no but it’s happened a few times that watches I’m looking at have been purchased this way and have remaining periods left on the Klarna type purchase.

Now here’s a thing. The guy has contacted me just to let me know the watch is sold. It’s been sold to one of the high street pawnbrokers via eBay so that watch will no doubt appear on their shop/website with a considerable markup but the same provenance and I could quite easily buy it directly from them without any knowledge of how they came into possession of it. Wonder if they’ve a buyer lined up or just taking it into stock
 
Argyll Andy said:
Thanks all for your input, as I said my gut feeling was no but it’s happened a few times that watches I’m looking at have been purchased this way and have remaining periods left on the Klarna type purchase.

Now here’s a thing. The guy has contacted me just to let me know the watch is sold. It’s been sold to one of the high street pawnbrokers via eBay so that watch will no doubt appear on their shop/website with a considerable markup but the same provenance and I could quite easily buy it directly from them without any knowledge of how they came into possession of it. Wonder if they’ve a buyer lined up or just taking it into stock
Click to expand...

Surely they would do some sort of search on it and again if it was £800 below retail, they want to make £400 on it so for the sake of £400 buy a nee one from a jeweller where the provenance is know IMHO
 
I never had any of these problems when I bought my £19.99 Casio. :D :poke:
 
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