British Grand Prix

[Nictrix]

Watching the clip (i dont watch F1 at any other time) it looked to me that it could have been almost deliberate that the car at the rear positioned its front wheel beside the car in fronts rear wheel waiting for it to turn in.
They could also make the cars more like go-karts or bumper cars with a guard that goes around the car protecting the wheels which would allow a degree of bashing during cornering and overtakes. Make it more exciting.

 

[john-e89]

:hairdryer:

Stevo and Nictrix…..stay out of the sun guys seriously, you’ve both clearly had too much today…. :wink:

 

[Mr Tidy]

Well that was exciting!

I'm glad Max seems OK because that was a big shunt, but for me (although I'm no expert) it looked like a racing incident. If the roles had been reversed no way would Max have lifted off, so why should he expect Lewis to? If you run the outside line on a corner there's only one place left to go if it all goes wrong.

Great result for Lewis but I did have some sympathy for Charles Leclerc, even if you had asked him last week he'd probably have happily taken 2nd! And a great 4th place for Lando Norris - if (when?) George Russell gets in a competitive car we should have 3 Brits regularly doing well.

If nothing else this season has been more unpredictable than most recent ones!

 

[Smartbear]

Well that was exciting!

I'm glad Max seems OK because that was a big shunt, but for me (although I'm no expert) it looked like a racing incident. If the roles had been reversed no way would Max have lifted off, so why should he expect Lewis to? If you run the outside line on a corner there's only one place left to go if it all goes wrong.

Great result for Lewis but I did have some sympathy for Charles Leclerc, even if you had asked him last week he'd probably have happily taken 2nd! And a great 4th place for Lando Norris - if (when?) George Russell gets in a competitive car we should have 3 Brits regularly doing well.

If nothing else this season has been more unpredictable than most recent ones!

That’s fair enough if Mercedes don’t complain if Max launches Lewis into the barriers at 150mph+ in a forthcoming race, looks like that’s acceptable behaviour now :thumbsdown:
Rob

 

[Mr Tidy]

That’s fair enough if Mercedes don’t complain if Max launches Lewis into the barriers at 150mph+ in a forthcoming race, looks like that’s acceptable behaviour now
Rob

Not really, but the high-speed launch was the result of where it happened - there didn't seem to be that much contact.

Lewis looked to be pretty much alongside Max at one point and surely Max should have been aware Lewis was still there - I just think Lewis didn't expect Max to still turn in and Max expected Lewis to back out. Whatever way anyone sees it that isn't how any racing fan wanted it to play out, because they have to be the 2 best drivers on the grid.

 

[Smartbear]

That’s fair enough if Mercedes don’t complain if Max launches Lewis into the barriers at 150mph+ in a forthcoming race, looks like that’s acceptable behaviour now
Rob

Not really, but the high-speed launch was the result of where it happened - there didn't seem to be that much contact.

Lewis looked to be pretty much alongside Max at one point and surely Max should have been aware Lewis was still there - I just think Lewis didn't expect Max to still turn in and Max expected Lewis to back out. Whatever way anyone sees it that isn't how any racing fan wanted it to play out, because they have to be the 2 best drivers on the grid.

All the footage I’ve seen from the shunt shows Max to be in front, have you got a pic of Lewis level? It’s setting a dangerous precedent imho & i think we’ll see Lewis regret it before the end of the season.
Rob
Rob

 

[Mr Tidy]

All the footage I’ve seen from the shunt shows Max to be in front, have you got a pic of Lewis level? It’s setting a dangerous precedent imho & i think we’ll see Lewis regret it before the end of the season.
Rob

No Rob, I'm just relying on what I saw from the live footage at the time to be fair.

But surely Max could or should have seen Lewis still had his front wheel there before he went for the racing line? Although as I said I'm no expert - my only racing experience was banger racing (at Arena Essex)! :lol:

To be fair if it had involved any other driver on the grid one of them would probably have backed out, but it certainly spices up the rest of the season!

Looking back Max has been pretty aggressive - you never know he may end up regretting it when someone doesn't cave in!

Either way penalties seem to be getting dished out all the time these days, like the one George Russell got on Saturday for what looked like a racing incident with Carlos Sainz.

Senna putting Prost in the gravel at the first corner and Schumacher punting Hill into the barrier in Oz went unpunished IIRC and they were far more avoidable.

Anyway time will tell how it plays out.

Iain.

 

[Smartbear]

All the footage I’ve seen from the shunt shows Max to be in front, have you got a pic of Lewis level? It’s setting a dangerous precedent imho & i think we’ll see Lewis regret it before the end of the season.
Rob

No Rob, I'm just relying on what I saw from the live footage at the time to be fair.

But surely Max could or should have seen Lewis still had his front wheel there before he went for the racing line? Although as I said I'm no expert - my only racing experience was banger racing (at Arena Essex)! :lol:

To be fair if it had involved any other driver on the grid one of them would probably have backed out, but it certainly spices up the rest of the season!

Looking back Max has been pretty aggressive - you never know he may end up regretting it when someone doesn't cave in!

Either way penalties seem to be getting dished out all the time these days, like the one George Russell got on Saturday for what looked like a racing incident with Carlos Sainz.

Senna putting Prost in the gravel at the first corner and Schumacher punting Hill into the barrier in Oz went unpunished IIRC and they were far more avoidable.

Anyway time will tell how it plays out.

Iain.

It works the other way round, Lewis could see that Max was in front (all the footage I’ve seen shows this to be the case) so should have yielded as the line belonged to him. It’s very similar to the Bottas/George crash a few weeks back & the person behind copped the blame in that instance as well.
Rob

 

[buzyg]

Great race. Great result.

 

[GuidoK]

Maybe Lewis was just making a bit of statement by not backing out?

He got penalized by the FIA, so there is no doubt who is the guilty one.
Whether the penalty Lewis got was the right one or not doesn't really matter. No penalty can turn the incident and give Max a fair chance again to win that GP.

if not edging more towards a racing incident.

It's not a racing incident as a penalty was given. It can't be both.
If a penalty is given it's per definition not a racing incident imho.
A penalty is only given if one is at fault.

It's great for the racing I think,

One driver ending up in the hospital because of a move is never great for the racing one should think.
It's good that the cars are made so safe nowadays. Had this happened 25 years ago, Max would probably be dead.

 

[Worcester_spoon]

Charles Leclerc "It is a racing incident. It is quite difficult to put the blame on one or the other. There was space on the inside. Maybe Lewis was not completely at the apex but it is also true Max was quite aggressive on the outside. Things happen. The most important today is Max is unharmed and is fine."

Fernando Alonso "Lewis had more than half a car alongside Max, so in a way Lewis could not disappear from that inside line. You can't vanish. So it was an unfortunate moment but nothing intentional and nothing that any of the two drivers did wrong."

 

[enuff_zed]

Watched it again in slo mo.
Previous corner, Lewis was well ahead on the outside and Max kept his foot in and ran him wide. Lewis was expecting this and avoided it.
At Copse, they were nigh on level, Max initially moved left to give space, then turned in. Lewis saw that and immediately lifted. Given that the cars can generate nearly 1G simply by lifting off the throttle, it is little wonder all the weight went forward and pushed him into understeer. You can see the moment he realises and lifts, the car immediately opens its line into the corner.
I wonder if Lewis was in a blind spot for Max who assumed he'd backed out already and came over?

A racing incident and between any other drivers we would already have forgotten it.
Horner and Wolff are being childish and heaping as much pressure on their own driver as on the opposing one. Would they previously have made such calls to race control before they started to broadcast them to the public?

I like the fact Lewis overtook LeClerc in the same place with no issues, just to prove a point.

 

[Worcester_spoon]

If CLC, who has more talent in his little finger than us all combined, and who had the best view in the house, calls it a racing incident, I'm happy to call it a racing incident.

If two time world champion Fernando Alonso, having reviewed the footage, says no drive is to blame, then I'm happy to call it a racing incident.

The stewards these days are more interested in 'being part of the show' than they are in making balanced decisions. The whole process needs an overhaul as it's no longer fit for purpose.

On the 'after match' comments... Max needs to grow up, Horner needs to shut up (as does Wolff).

For what it's worth, I watched it live with 2 people who race British GT (so guessing they know a little more than most about this stuff) and both called it a racing incident, caused by 2 committed drivers pushing it to the limit. For me, that's what racing is, and if we start handing out penalties like this week in week out, then racing is dead.

 

[GuidoK]

Imho it's up to the stewards of the FIA to decide whether it's a racing incident or reckless driving.
They fulfill the role of referee and do that in the scope of how the FIA thinks should be driven on the track. And that can be a different view than the drivers have. 150mph+ crashes are bad publicity.

 

[blunderthumbs]

MV would've done the same on Lewis had he been on the inside fighting for first. Stop moaning Max and suck it up, this is motor racing. :x

 

[Flyingfifer]

Absolutely appalling driving from Hammy, there was absolutely no chance there wouldnt have been a crash, he was so shallow he would absolutely have hit Max on exit if not before, add to that the fact that he was at least a cars width wide of the apex, Hammy decided that he was going for a dive bomb and it was up to Max to avoid the crash.

As was said before the complete lack of any concern for the driver speaks volumes, we all want to see wheel to wheel racing but its racing we want to see, not Japanese Zero style kamikaze dive bombing a car thats 4/5ths in front of you into the corner.

I also suspect that Le Clerc was worried that Hammy would smash him into the barrier just like he did Max and that's why he pulled right out of it and even went off into the run off area.

The British fans that cheered when Max crashed as well, absolutely fucking disgusting :thumbsdown:

Saw a couple of polls afterwards, one with roughly 85k votes and another with about 65k and both overwhelmingly said that Hammy was in the wrong.

I would have LOVED to hear from Nico Rosberg yesterday, shame he wasnt there

 

[Smartbear]

MV would've done the same on Lewis had he been on the inside fighting for first. Stop moaning Max and suck it up, this is motor racing. :x

It’s going to be interesting to see if Lewis will “suck it up” if Max puts Lewis into the barriers at high speed in the forthcoming races?
Rob

 

[Flyingfifer]

MV would've done the same on Lewis had he been on the inside fighting for first. Stop moaning Max and suck it up, this is motor racing. :x

It’s going to be interesting to see if Lewis will “suck it up” if Max puts Lewis into the barriers at high speed in the forthcoming races?
Rob

100% right and make no mistake after yesterday thats what is going to happen as we have seen so many times before

 

[AndyBeech]

Maybe Lewis was just making a bit of statement by not backing out?

He got penalized by the FIA, so there is no doubt who is the guilty one.
Whether the penalty Lewis got was the right one or not doesn't really matter. No penalty can turn the incident and give Max a fair chance again to win that GP.

Max had a fair chance to win the GP. He could've backed out. He chose not to and be equally aggressive, like he was down the Wellington Straight previously. Both drivers contributed to that accident, Lewis more so hence why he received a penalty albeit it only a relatively light one.

It's not a racing incident as a penalty was given. It can't be both.
If a penalty is given it's per definition not a racing incident imho.
A penalty is only given if one is at fault.

It's called an opinion Guidok. In my opinion not every decision they make is correct and they make a decision based on data they receive and come to their own collective decision. Does that always make them correct? Lot of people saying 10 seconds wasn't enough. My opinion was that a lower penalty or racing incident decision would've been an outcome I would understand. If it was me personally, I would've said hard racing and 1st lap incident should be a racing incident but that's just my opinion.

One driver ending up in the hospital because of a move is never great for the racing one should think.
It's good that the cars are made so safe nowadays. Had this happened 25 years ago, Max would probably be dead.

Don't be silly, twisting my words. Of course the outcome wasn't good, no one want's to see another driver in hospital. However, they're racing, the highest paid and best drivers in the world with a lot at stake. Do we want to see them race or follow each other around in a train scared of making a move? I don't believe anyone at any point said racing is 100% safe and there's no way it can be unless we want to make the sport even more boring than sometimes it can be. Talking about what could've happened, if's and but's, or the outcome 25 years ago is a non point. *If* there was a bigger run off there it would have been a spin and he would've re-joined the race. I can't believe anyone would think that Max wouldn't have done exactly the same thing.

Karun did an excellent analysis of the accident on Sky which is now on YouTube, worth a watch. Much more reasoned than the 'Drive to Survive' experts calling for death penalties, black flags etc. :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw2r2-9LWJQ

 

[mmm-five]

I don’t want this to be seen as supporting Hamilton specifically, as he’s great but too far up his own arse for me, and I’ve been relishing the extra pace that Red Bull have found (or Mercedes have lost with the high rake / low rake changes).

—————

When Max has done similar in previous seasons, Horner has been his staunch supporter claiming it's just assertive racing and you have to out-bully the others.

Unfortunately Max was on the wrong side of the bullying this time, and so Horner is not happy.

Even on the start of the race, Max went wide, off the track, rejoined and bumped wheels with Hamilton…should Max have been penalised for that. Then Max starts weaving to break the tow, which is also against the rules in the strictest sense but generally not punished…should Max have been penalised for that?

Don't forget, the stewards are professional drivers and have much more info available than we do - not just cameras, but telemetry. They can see many more data points than we can, and after all that they decided it was 'mostly' Hamilton's fault - but not totally.

So they're both to blame, and if Max hadn't crashed out, I believe he'd have received a penalty also (maybe one severity down from Hamilton).