Brake Upgrade

G

GarethA

Member
Hi folks

My Z4M needs new brake discs which I'm just about to book it in for.

What's the consensus out there on the quality of the Z4M brakes and sensible upgrades. Is it worth replacing stock parts or this a sensible time to think about paying a little more for better discs and or better calipers from eg Brembo/AP?

I guess a budget would be useful so maybe less than 2/2.5k max

(Better pads (Pagid?) and hoses are on the list anyway)

Thoughts appreciated.

The majority of my driving is hard road driving, in europe when I can(driving tours etc) but no/little track so not interested in set up that's amazing at snetterton but howls like a banshee on the road!

Thanks
 
I got BMW Performane Brembo 6 pots for the front of my M3 with 345 mm pagid discs and braided hoses
Have to say the best upgrade. Braking is now totally awesome.
No brake fade or juddering on track days either.
Total cost was around £1000. I got a really good deal on the calipers though.
Would definately eecommend getting this done.
 
In the driving you have done, have you found the limit of the oem set up? Personally I'd look at a halfway hhousethis time around, and get some decent pads like mintex 1144s which will be ideal for fast Road at a fraction of the cost of new caliper setups. Should be more than adequate with oem discs and decent fluid for the road!
 
Ed Doe said:
In the driving you have done, have you found the limit of the oem set up? Personally I'd look at a halfway hhousethis time around, and get some decent pads like mintex 1144s which will be ideal for fast Road at a fraction of the cost of new caliper setups. Should be more than adequate with oem discs and decent fluid for the road!
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Agree with this.

OEM stuff is plenty capable for fast road, you would seriously have to be pushing really hard to out perform. Just upgrade to braided hoses, some decent racing fluid, good pads and discs and i would be amazed if you could cook the brakes.
 
simonlpearce said:
Ed Doe said:
In the driving you have done, have you found the limit of the oem set up? Personally I'd look at a halfway hhousethis time around, and get some decent pads like mintex 1144s which will be ideal for fast Road at a fraction of the cost of new caliper setups. Should be more than adequate with oem discs and decent fluid for the road!
Click to expand...

Agree with this.

OEM stuff is plenty capable for fast road, you would seriously have to be pushing really hard to out perform. Just upgrade to braided hoses, some decent racing fluid, good pads and discs and i would be amazed if you could cook the brakes.
Click to expand...

It is possible though. I've experienced brake fade (mushy pedal) with stock discs, high end brake fluid, braided brake lines and decent pads on fast mountain runs and my first track outings, downhill braking zones are particular torture for them...

The reason i wanted a big brake kit is because i wanted to pretty much remove braking performance out of the equation. Simply not worry about them any more. And it did just that. Extremely pleased with my kit. I am sure that my brake fade on track and road was mostly because of lack of experience and overbraking and the BBK is redundant 90% of the time but i still think it's one of the best things i've bought for my car.
 
ga41 said:
The reason i wanted a big brake kit is because i wanted to pretty much remove braking performance out of the equation. Simply not worry about them any more. And it did just that. Extremely pleased with my kit. I am sure that my brake fade on track and road was mostly because of lack of experience and overbraking and the BBK is redundant 90% of the time but i still think it's one of the best things i've bought for my car.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree, i have a BBK on both my E36 328 track car and my E36 M3 Evo road car. The latter was mainly as i bought two kits by mistake, but also it looks badass.

If you have the funds then i see no reason why not upgrade, but in reality you don't NEED to in order to drive a car fast on the road. Only in very extreme circumstances will you cook them, such as your mountain passes, though how often do we all get to drive those :)
 
simonlpearce said:
... Only in very extreme circumstances will you cook them, such as your mountain passes, though how often do we all get to drive those :)
Click to expand...

Indeed, sadly not very often anymore... :(
 
I don't think the OE discs are poor - and you'll pay a lot more than £180 a disc for something 'better'.

OE pads are another matter - but are made to work in all 'normal' driving conditions and weather. The calipers are not brilliant either, but mine have mostly taken everything I've thrown at them, and I've only had one stick at about 110k miles.

I've planned an upgrade to the front calipers for as soon as my tame spanner monkey can get my custom heat treated aluminium billet carriers done for the Alcon 4-pots (something like F456/F550 spec), which should be some time in the next month.

I don't need the extra braking endurance, but I'm trying to overhaul one system at a time and - where possible - upgrading for a similar price to OE parts. I'm a bit behind plan at the moment, but it will be brakes, cooling system, suspension for now.
 
One other thing to consider when upgrading the brakes is the bias and brake pedal feel. All will be greatly affected if not much thought is put into it.
 
The difference in bias is not that big. The cars (like every normal road car) are already greatly front biassed (so rears have little impact). Front biassed or more front biassed makes not much difference, but also doesn't change brake distance (so you won't stop faster with a front bbk).
But only fitting a rear bbk with 4 pots (or more) might be a bad idea :wink:
 
Most BBKs from reputable brands for our cars take into account the correct bias and make sure to not change it. Stoptech, AP Racing, Performance Friction, Brembo for example. Most of the cheaper brands like K-Sport, for instance do not.
 
I think OEM brakes are fine for fast road and occasional track use. I just tested mine on track and I was doing 9-10 fast laps at a time and they held up fine. There were some heavy braking areas too. They groaned a bit but didn't fade. I'm sure they would fade in more prolonged use on track but I haven't even got close to cooking them on the road.
 
IMO, the OEM brakes are very good used with YellowStuff pads, and a few simple and cheap mods: brake cooling ducts, DOT 5.1fluid, braided hoses and solid brake bushes. I've done getting on for 1k miles around The Ring with this set up on my Z4MC as well as fast road use, and I've never had any problems: reliable and dependable braking with good feel. The OEM floating discs are a high quality product and hard to beat.

If you've got £2.5k to upgrade the car, I'd spend most of that on adjustable suspension, where you'll get much less pitching on braking, which will also improve the braking performance of the OEM brakes. :thumbsup:
 
All

Some very informative comments here - thanks for taking the time.

ga41 - can I ask what BBK you went for?

In answer to questions no I haven't found the limit of the current set up, mainly as the car is newish to me with the vendor up front at sale that new discs were an advisory at last service and MOT.

I've upgraded from an E36 M3 were the brakes just wilted after half a downhill (alpine) mountain pass (yes that is the sort of driving I'm talking about) and it was clear from the seasoned veterans of the tour there wasn't a lot of love for stock e36 and e46 M3 brakes, with many [AP] upgrades seen. Hence the query on the Z4M particularly as it is replacement time in any case.

Sounds like mintex/yellowstuff pads, fluids and hoses are a good place to start

Cheers!
 
GarethA, it's the Stoptech kit. 355mm discs all around, 6 piston fronts and 4 piston rears, with Pagid RS29 pads and Motul RBF 660 brake fluid.
 
Gareth it's worth pointing out that the Z4M's have the same brakes as the M3 CSL rather than the stock M3. Not necessarily important to your decision but a distinction worth pointing out.
 
Hi, we did a few track days in my ZMC, and the brakes held up great! The brakes were standard, but in excellent condition being recently replaced. New discs and pads front and rear, genuine BMW. I was ready to upgrade with an AP BBK which I had already off my old E46 M3, but it was not needed. One of the track days was at Cadwell Park at the height of summer on a very hot day, and we weren't hanging around! Yes a BBK looks the biz, but the biggest improvement on my car was the fitting of H&R springs and camber shims (washers actually), which was fairly inexpensive!
Cheers
 
upgrading my suspension really made the breaking feel better as its not moving around and pitching / diving so much.... it keeps a square footprint which of course works the brakes more but give you much more feel and confidence for whats going on, unless you have a a power increase i wouldn't change the already great stock brakes.
 
I've gone through the usual brake upgrades step-by-step.

1. Full OEM setup. Fading during Nurburgring laps, but less then I initially expected.
2. Stainless steel brake lines, ATE super blue oil, additional brake cooling and EBC Yellow brake pads. Still a bit of fading during track days, but already better then the OEM setup. Not so happy with the brake power and durability of the EBC Yellow's. Initially I had a long brake pedal travel, but ABS pump bleeding solved most of this.
3. 2/ above + Pagid RS14 (front) / RS29 (rear). Brake fading gone, but additional heat resistance made the brake pistons in the calipers wobble. This resulted in uneven brake pad wear.
4. Installed the Turner Motorsport metal brake bushing upgrade kit. Brake feel, modulation and stopping power is very good with this setup. Probably the best I'll be able to get with the OEM calipers and rotors. Brake travel is still longer then I'd like, but it's compared with other Z4M / M3 owners.
 
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