Brake upgrade - are these compatible? Suggestions?

FD3S said:
My question is if you believe that for a car that never sees racetrack, if it makes sense any upgrade to the brake system? What results should someone expecting when having such an upgrade? Is it something measurable?
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I did it on the back of driving an Elise S2 and 997 C4S in anger on some of the UK’s best roads. The Z4M stops just as violently as them if you mash the brake pedal, but the feel of their brakes is so much better. This is partly because of the slightly over-servoed nature of the ///M brakes (non-M is more progressive and natural, in my opinion) but also, I’m sure, because of their multi-pot calipers. They just seemed to have more consistent pedal feel, and for longer. It was most noticeable when heel & toeing down through more than one gear or when driving downhill through switchbacks. Whether this is because of better cooling or improved stability of the pad against the disc, I don’t know - suspect it’s a combination of both. People have had good results just by improving front brake cooling on our cars, but the aesthetic benefits of going to 4 or 6 pot calipers are hard to ignore!
 
MrPT said:
bmwaddict said:
MrPT said:
Here are the part numbers of the calipers mentioned above, FYI:

2F9DB24B-A05C-4DDB-B357-D67594ED9498.jpeg

Last two characters of the Aston ones are the colour code.
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So what are you running at the rear Paul?
Standard M calipers?
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Yes, just tarted up a bit to match the fronts.

bradz said:
Whilst I'm not disagreeing with the tech info, there certainly was a reduction in pedal travel when I fitted the 6 pots. (Compared to freshly bled stock fronts)
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That does makes sense though. Those 6 pots have less total piston volume than stock, so there will be more piston travel per unit of pedal travel. Pairing them with the 996 rears means there's a bit of a shift from the stock brake bias to the front, but I'm not sure how much us mere mortals would be able to tell. You'd also hope that every option we've discussed is still going to hit the limits of the road/tyres before their own.

The combos to avoid, in my opinion, are just changing the fronts to BMW Performance or Porsche 996 calipers and keeping the stock rears. Big change in brake bias rearwards, and the kind of thing you'd probably find out for the first time when someone's cat suddenly runs out in front of you. :cry:
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I can honestly say running the BMW proformance calipers and stock rears isn't a problem. After 17 laps of the Nurburgring chasing times this caused no noticeable unbalance of the car during heavy breaking.
 
FD3S said:
It is time also for me to change discs and the pads. I was thinking to upgrade to a bigger 6 and 4 pot system but those systems from Brembo, AP Racing and Stoptech cost a leg and an arm.
It is good that I see that there a many other solutions.

My question is if you believe that for a car that never sees racetrack, if it makes sense any upgrade to the brake system? What results should someone expecting when having such an upgrade? Is it something measurable?
Click to expand...

Very good question you raised about the usage of the car: I am not planning to track the car, so perhaps it would make sense to just upgrade the brake lines (with braided ones) and fit EBC or similar pads when the time to replace the discs comes?
 
bradz said:
MrPT said:
The combos to avoid, in my opinion, are just changing the fronts to BMW Performance or Porsche 996 calipers and keeping the stock rears. Big change in brake bias rearwards, and the kind of thing you'd probably find out for the first time when someone's cat suddenly runs out in front of you. :cry:
Click to expand...

I can honestly say running the BMW proformance calipers and stock rears isn't a problem. After 17 laps of the Nurburgring chasing times this caused no noticeable unbalance of the car during heavy breaking.
Click to expand...

Nice! Same pads front and back? Front and rear tyres in similar condition? It might just be that the stock brake bias is very conservative (front biased) and you've neutralised all of the safety margin. I still stand by my comment - it's a risk that shouldn't be taken lightly by most of us. You are lucky in that you have a lot of opportunities to check the performance of your car at or near the limit.

Have you put the Porsche rears on now? Would be interested in how they feel in comparison to just the BMW Ps up front.
 
MrPT said:
bradz said:
MrPT said:
The combos to avoid, in my opinion, are just changing the fronts to BMW Performance or Porsche 996 calipers and keeping the stock rears. Big change in brake bias rearwards, and the kind of thing you'd probably find out for the first time when someone's cat suddenly runs out in front of you. :cry:
Click to expand...

I can honestly say running the BMW proformance calipers and stock rears isn't a problem. After 17 laps of the Nurburgring chasing times this caused no noticeable unbalance of the car during heavy breaking.
Click to expand...

Nice! Same pads front and back? Front and rear tyres in similar condition? It might just be that the stock brake bias is very conservative (front biased) and you've neutralised all of the safety margin. I still stand by my comment - it's a risk that shouldn't be taken lightly by most of us. You are lucky in that you have a lot of opportunities to check the performance of your car at or near the limit.

Have you put the Porsche rears on now? Would be interested in how they feel in comparison to just the BMW Ps up front.
Click to expand...

Ds2500's all round on a fresh set of MPSS for that trip.

I Still need to refit the Sub-frame! Hopefully Jan will be a quiet month work wise so I can get cracking! But yes I'm interested to see how they will feel. I was happy with the sock rears performance wise to be honest, the main reason for going down the Porsche rears is aesthetic reasons!
 
MrPT said:
FD3S said:
My question is if you believe that for a car that never sees racetrack, if it makes sense any upgrade to the brake system? What results should someone expecting when having such an upgrade? Is it something measurable?
Click to expand...

I did it on the back of driving an Elise S2 and 997 C4S in anger on some of the UK’s best roads. The Z4M stops just as violently as them if you mash the brake pedal, but the feel of their brakes is so much better. This is partly because of the slightly over-servoed nature of the ///M brakes (non-M is more progressive and natural, in my opinion) but also, I’m sure, because of their multi-pot calipers. They just seemed to have more consistent pedal feel, and for longer. It was most noticeable when heel & toeing down through more than one gear or when driving downhill through switchbacks. Whether this is because of better cooling or improved stability of the pad against the disc, I don’t know - suspect it’s a combination of both. People have had good results just by improving front brake cooling on our cars, but the aesthetic benefits of going to 4 or 6 pot calipers are hard to ignore!
Click to expand...

Thank you for your detailed answer.
Is the aesthetic benefit so important than to give 4500 euros for new brakes? :D I haven't decided yet...
Btw how can someone improve the front brake cooling?
 
Attilio said:
FD3S said:
It is time also for me to change discs and the pads. I was thinking to upgrade to a bigger 6 and 4 pot system but those systems from Brembo, AP Racing and Stoptech cost a leg and an arm.
It is good that I see that there a many other solutions.

My question is if you believe that for a car that never sees racetrack, if it makes sense any upgrade to the brake system? What results should someone expecting when having such an upgrade? Is it something measurable?
Click to expand...

Very good question you raised about the usage of the car: I am not planning to track the car, so perhaps it would make sense to just upgrade the brake lines (with braided ones) and fit EBC or similar pads when the time to replace the discs comes?
Click to expand...

My thoughts are the same. Brake line upgrade new discs and better pads. The only possibility I was thinking the 6 piston is that maybe within the next year I decide to go the SC way. Anyway decisions, decisions. However the aesthetics is indeed something important.
 
FD3S said:
Thank you for your detailed answer.
Is the aesthetic benefit so important than to give 4500 euros for new brakes? :D I haven't decided yet...
Click to expand...

Well, I think what we're saying is that there are some good options under 1500 euros which offer big improvements in performance and looks. :)

Btw how can someone improve the front brake cooling?
Click to expand...

exdos wrote this epic how-to.
 
FD3S said:
Attilio said:
FD3S said:
It is time also for me to change discs and the pads. I was thinking to upgrade to a bigger 6 and 4 pot system but those systems from Brembo, AP Racing and Stoptech cost a leg and an arm.
It is good that I see that there a many other solutions.

My question is if you believe that for a car that never sees racetrack, if it makes sense any upgrade to the brake system? What results should someone expecting when having such an upgrade? Is it something measurable?
Click to expand...

Very good question you raised about the usage of the car: I am not planning to track the car, so perhaps it would make sense to just upgrade the brake lines (with braided ones) and fit EBC or similar pads when the time to replace the discs comes?
Click to expand...

My thoughts are the same. Brake line upgrade new discs and better pads. The only possibility I was thinking the 6 piston is that maybe within the next year I decide to go the SC way. Anyway decisions, decisions. However the aesthetics is indeed something important.
Click to expand...

I might be thick but what do you mean with “the SC way?” :?
 
mmm-five said:
Attilio said:
I might be thick but what do you mean with “the SC way?” :?
Click to expand...
Supercharger :thumbsup:
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Now I get it! Thank you! :thumbsup:

I am still getting acquainted with the car and can only imagine what it would be like with additional power and torque! :o :evil:

I'd say that a BBK (I know this acronym :wink: ) would be a must after such mod.

Now off to hoovering the interior, cleaning and conditioning the leather seats...Z4M first and then the i3.

Enjoy your day guys :)
 
AP BBK here 6pot front 4 pot rear, pedal is rock solid, right at the top, insane breaking performance and are without doubt one of the best braking setups ive ever experienced massively over-braked for the little z4 , issues with them is they squeal like a pig and are absolutely s**t when they are cold, they also cover and i mean cover the car in dust, and the parts are so expensive you'll need to sit down to digest the £££s.
 
Beedub said:
AP BBK here 6pot front 4 pot rear, pedal is rock solid, right at the top, insane breaking performance and are without doubt one of the best braking setups ive ever experienced massively over-braked for the little z4 , issues with them is they squeal like a pig and are absolutely s**t when they are cold, they also cover and i mean cover the car in dust, and the parts are so expensive you'll need to sit down to digest the £££s.
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Changing from Pagids to EBC Bluestuff NDX removed both the squealing and brake dust issues plus they are so much cheaper. The first set of rear pads weren't completely flat but the factory sorted this with no quibble. Only downsides are less initial bite (I consider that an advantage over the hair trigger Pagids) and they stick to the discs after washing the car (clang!).
 
MrPT said:
FD3S said:
Thank you for your detailed answer.
Is the aesthetic benefit so important than to give 4500 euros for new brakes? :D I haven't decided yet...
Click to expand...

Well, I think what we're saying is that there are some good options under 1500 euros which offer big improvements in thperformance and looks. :)

Btw how can someone improve the front brake cooling?
Click to expand...

exdos wrote this epic how-to.
Click to expand...

MrPt my mistake. I thought that the prices you guys were talking was only for the front pistons. I found some time to do some googling for the M Performance parts and I found this: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-bmw-parts/bmw-performance-big-brake-kit-front-rear/34110444769/

Does the above BBK fit to our cars and on the 18'' stock wheels?
Why the price difference is so big from the other BBK solutions like AP Racing, Stoptech and the Brembo?

The posts from exdus are really informative, thanks :thumbsup:
 
bradz said:
That's a silly price!

I think you need a small spacer to use them with 224"s
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Brad could you please help me with what do you mean with the term 224''s?
Is the stock wheels?

Thanks in advance.
 
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