Brake pads
- Thread starter damolong
- Start date
Liverpool
I believe they have slightly different callipers and of course the bigger discs, but the calliper uses the same profile pad. There may be other differences in the braking system such as different programme for the ABS and different brake cylinders, but I've not investigated enough to check.VvrooomM said:
Are you sure...?mmm-five said:
The last time I spoke to EBC, which was a few months back they said it wasn't road legal. Their site also says NDX one's are not road legal for all cars (although the guy I emailed then said for all cars? :? )
EBC Site said:
http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive/ebc_disc_pads_for_racing/index.shtml
I'm never sure when it comes to EBC pads, as their own tech guys can contradict their own website - but usually it's because the website it out of date.peddy said:
I've not looked into it in any depth as I don't need new pads yet.
When I last looked, most performance pads from most manufacturers aren't R90 certified anyway - i.e. Pagid RS, Ferodo DS2500/3000, Mintex 144, EBC Bluestuff,
The R90 certification was/is an ongoing process - starting with Mitsubishi Evo/Subaru Impreza pads - but their initial plan was to get a good range R90 certified by the end of 2010. However, R90 is basically a regulation stating that pads have to have a friction coefficient between a low of 'x' & a high of 'y' to stop poorly made pads entering the market (although the counterfeiters can always just add an R90 logo to the pad). The NDX pad exceeds this higher level and thus fails to meet the regulation as it stands, which is akin to not certifying Z-rated tyres because they do more than a standard one based on a T-rated spec. This x & y is based on a ±15% difference between the OEM pad and the aftermarket pad, so if your performance pad has a 20% higher it will not pass the certification as it will be classed as either not grippy enough, or too grippy and thus causing excessive disc wear.
If you're not tracking the car regularly, then the NDX and most other non-R90-certified 'track' pads will be overkill, and you should just stick to your preferred manufacturer's best R90-certified pad. If you're doing regular track days then it should be easy enough to swap your pads over when you do your tyre/wheel change in the morning.
Anyone who claims that they NEED race/track pads for the road either don't know how to brake, or are in a stolen car
Right, just spoken to EBC technical dept, and they've told me that as the NDX pad is outside the 15% tolerance for ECE R90, they are not road legal - and the same goes for the multitude of track/race pads on sale.
If they're good enough to exceed the OEM pad performance by 15%, then they will not get R90 approval - or not until the EU remove the upper limit of this silly regulation.
If they're good enough to exceed the OEM pad performance by 15%, then they will not get R90 approval - or not until the EU remove the upper limit of this silly regulation.
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Anonymous
Guest
Interesting post - new to this forum. Brilliant car had Z4M Coupe for 2 years now, only used for trackdays. Brakes are poor. Standard pads and discs soon suffer from heat and dust the cross drilled holes soon clog with dust. Is this the norm for hard track use? Seems Yellow pads might be the answer but am concerned about the R90 certification. - Agree also difficult gearbox especially when cold, many a Kangaroo moment!!!!!
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Anonymous
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Nothing to serious X5 - 3.0d - just as quick in a traffic queue and more comfortable!
Yellows are R90 certified, it's just the Blues that are not.MartinS said:
A 1500kg road car is never going track-ready from the factory. I don't think any car built for the road has exception brakes as stock - even the (non-upgraded) brakes on a Porsche GT3 will complain after 10 solid laps of Oulton Park.
How many people on here have had braking instruction from a racing/track instructor? I bet that he'll be able to go round the track faster for longer, brake & accelerate harder, and do less damage to the car than most of us will - and I've only ever had a braking 'moment' on a track day once, and that was in an e34 M5 after 20 laps of Oulton Park.
I'm not saying I'm a driving god, because I know I'm as fallible as the next person and no better than average, but when you see people (on multiple forums, not specifically here) complaining about standard brakes being crap and fading during 'normal' road use, you start to wonder how hard they're driving the things on the public road.
mmm-five said:
I agree with you on most points. The only thing i dont is on street drivers complaining about brake fade. I drive my car hard and fast on quiet B roads here, i'm lucky enough that there are some amazing drivers' roads nearby that have very little traffic in general, i still experience brake fade on extended drives. I do realise that i'm braking more than necessary to clear a lot of the turns but the reason i do that is because i dont know what's coming the other way! The roads, i know them like the back of my hand but what about that crazy lorry driver taking more than half the road? Or any bikers? Or that slow vehicle hiding behind that blind turn? If i cant see past the exit of the turn i usually slow down enough to give me enough time to either stop or react fast enough to prevent something bad from happening..
Just explaining what i do, not trying to have a go.
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Anonymous
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I didn't say the brakes were no good, far from it. I have never needed more brakes on the road (we are not all dickheads)but on the track days the problem I have is the dust blocking the brake disc holes and the braking then becomes very rough and almost like the pads are worn through. Clear out these holes and the discs settle down. On an open pit lane at Brands after after a few outings and maybe 50 or more laps in total the brakes start to complain especially into paddock. Not the quickest driver around but 57sec laps around the indy circuit - not too slow? I always have a session of tuition on the days and yes smooth driving especially the transition of throttle/braking/throttle is always best and easier on the car and tyres but the choice of the BMW standard road pads is not the best. The brakes are not 'crap' the driver is competent - just need a more suited brake product for trackdays and occasional road use.
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Anonymous
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No offence meant - did not mean you at all - appologies if it seemed like it. Back to the brakes just trying to solve a problem. Seems I had not read your last post, I was replying to the one before yours - sorry.
I found the OEM pads pretty reasonable on the track with regard to providing consistent braking force. I had only very minor fade after a total distance of about 50 miles, accumulated over three or four sessions in one morning. However, the pads which were far from new, were consumed completely in just one track day. The performance of the EBC pads is certainly better, but they're still pretty dusty. I've never experienced brake fade on the road in my ///M, but it was a common problem when driving in a spirited fashion in my 225 TTC.