Brake Pad Choices

[Justino]

So, over winter I will be fitting new rear discs, especially as with the new CSL wheels, they look scabby compared to the fronts which are relatively new.

When I did the fronts, I went oe on the pads, which seem fine, but tempted to try something else seen as I will be buying new for the rears, its a chance to get 4 matching.

Be good to get peoples upto date thoughts on best way to go using with standard discs, but a better pad material, and whether the rear pads should be the same, or as they probably do less work, can stop as oe pads.

cheers

 

[mmm-five]

What are your priorities for a brake pad?

• Better stopping performance when cold
• Better stopping performance when hot
• Track work
• Price
• Low dust levels
• Good disc life
• Good pad life
• Cosmetics (although you won't see the pad once it's fitted)
• Something else

 

[Justino]

price is not a factor within reason, something that is better warm, but not so much its non existent when cold.

 

[mmm-five]

In that case, my first recommendation will always be for Pagid RSL-29 - but they can be dusty and squeal a little.

Otherwise there have been some other options for fast road/track pads on here for brands like Carbon Lorraine, Performance Friction, Carbotechs and EBC* Yellowstuff. I've never tried any of these other than the EBCs, so can't comment on those or what compounds are appropriate.

But I've never had a problem with EBC pads on my e34 M5s or Z4MC (before my mate persuaded me to move over to RS29s), other than them not lasting very long, but other people claim they fall apart and will kill you to death :?

 

[Ed Doe]

other people claim they fall apart and will kill you to death :? [/i]

Another vote for RS29s - great pad. Ferodo DS2500s are pretty good as a road biased pad but nothing on RS29s...

Anecdotally I believe EBC Yellowstuff are the ones to avoid, a friend of mine did have the pad material fall off the backing plate - although to be fair that was after a day of track abuse, for which I don't believe they are designed....!

 

[mmm-five]

other people claim they fall apart and will kill you to death :?

Another vote for RS29s - great pad. Ferodo DS2500s are pretty good as a road biased pad but nothing on RS29s...

Anecdotally I believe EBC Yellowstuff are the ones to avoid, a friend of mine did have the pad material fall off the backing plate - although to be fair that was after a day of track abuse, for which I don't believe they are designed....!

As I said, other than the rapid wear (2-3 trackdays a set) I never had a problem with Yellowstuffs or Bluestuffs and used to get them at a heavy discount through a marshalling acquaintance at EBC (so about £110 for a 4 wheel set).

I probably did 12 trackdays and 3 Ring trips a year in the M5s (over 10 years / 200,000 miles), but did fewer track days in the Z4 (same number of Ring trips though).

Once that discount was gone, it made the cost per trackday more equal - but with less swapping, so I went over to the RS29 (about £300-£400 depending on caliper).

It also seems that EBC are forever changing their compound, so what was a good Yellowstuff compound in 2000 might not be the same Yellowstuff compound in 2021. Obviously they've change to remove some of the more harmful ingredients, but it makes it very difficult to compare experiences when your effectively on a different pad.

Whatever you do - unless you drive around everywhere with your foot on the brake pedal - DON'T buy Orangestuff, as you simply will not get enough heat into them with road tyres/brakes. I bedded a set in on the Nurburgring over 3 laps, and threw them away after another 3 laps as they just got 'cold' so quickly they wouldn't stop you. Somewhere like Cadwell or Oulton might just about get enough heat into them - or maybe if you're a BTCC driver in a BTCC car!

 

[Argenta]

I'd go for the ones I just used up, the Carbotech XP8 all around.
Good cold, gloriously unbeatable on track.
However with high performance pads there are always drawbacks, you cannot have the one without the other, so they squeel slightly (a little) in town etc. To me, that just show you're serious about your braking.

I did have a set of EBC Yellow on my Fiat Coupe 20VT (340hp & std Brembo 4-pots) ten years ago. They were good on easier tracks like Nurburgring and normal street use, but once on a normal track like Mantorp here in Sweden, on full thrust they lasted maybe 10laps, then large bits suddenly fell off.. Dangerous to say the least. Never touched them again.

The best track pads I've had was Performance Friction PFC08 (on the Fiat) which were just amazing, but very expensive and did squeel like crazy in town.

 

[brillomaster]

+ for PFC08s. but... they are expensive, and probably overkill unless you regularly track your car.

if you're just looking for a better road pad, and wont ever drive on track, something like EBC redstuff would probably be my vote.

 

[AndyBeech]

I would also vote RSL29's but to be honest most the suggestions so far are track focused and you haven't stated usage? If it's just for road I wouldn't use most of the above pads, total overkill and waste of money, unless you are driving like an absolute loon and even then...

Plenty of good road pads EBC, DS2500's etc. I've tried PF Z rated on the road personally and were good, no issues. Not for track work though, unless light usage.

 

[Ed Doe]

I would also vote RSL29's but to be honest most the suggestions so far are track focused and you haven't stated usage? If it's just for road I wouldn't use most of the above pads, total overkill and waste of money, unless you are driving like an absolute loon and even then...

Plenty of good road pads EBC, DS2500's etc. I've tried PF Z rated on the road personally and were good, no issues. Not for track work though, unless light usage.

I suggested DS2500s were good for road use! they work ok on track in my experience too, but at that point there are definitely better pads out there as you say.

 

[AndyBeech]

I would also vote RSL29's but to be honest most the suggestions so far are track focused and you haven't stated usage? If it's just for road I wouldn't use most of the above pads, total overkill and waste of money, unless you are driving like an absolute loon and even then...

Plenty of good road pads EBC, DS2500's etc. I've tried PF Z rated on the road personally and were good, no issues. Not for track work though, unless light usage.

I suggested DS2500s were good for road use!

Absolutely, I stole your suggestion for my post! :lol:

I wasn't having a dig at anyone at all, more just pointing out to the OP it's kind of difficult to help without him being a bit more specific about usage. Mmm-five asked ideal questions at the start of the thread....

 

[abar121]

DS2500 are good pads, marked not for road use, but they work well enough on the highway, if you are doing some track days. Some squeal, but manageable.

For purely road use, I would get decent Textar pads. They work great and warm up well. OE on many Porsches and great in all conditions.

EBC have changed the compond use for Yellow stuff pads quite a number of times, hence differing experiences out there. I haven't tried them, but have had green stuff pads yonks ago, that didn't last more than a few laps on track.

For mainly track use, Performance Friction pads. Lots of good options out there, take your pick.

 

[Ed Doe]

I wasn't having a dig at anyone at all, more just pointing out to the OP it's kind of difficult to help without him being a bit more specific about usage. Mmm-five asked ideal questions at the start of the thread....

I know, I'm just a sensitive soul :lol: Agree with your point - usage will absolutely dictate the right pad - no point in having a racepad for the road etc! Makes a change at least from the normal 'I want to upgrade my brakes' thread, which almost without exception actually translates to 'I've never replaced my brake fluid which is why my stock setup is naff, but I want some 8-pots clamping discs the size of small moons because they'll look good, please just tell me this is a good idea so I can get on and buy them.'

 

[AndyBeech]

I wasn't having a dig at anyone at all, more just pointing out to the OP it's kind of difficult to help without him being a bit more specific about usage. Mmm-five asked ideal questions at the start of the thread....

I know, I'm just a sensitive soul :lol: Agree with your point - usage will absolutely dictate the right pad - no point in having a racepad for the road etc! Makes a change at least from the normal 'I want to upgrade my brakes' thread, which almost without exception actually translates to 'I've never replaced my brake fluid which is why my stock setup is naff, but I want some 8-pots clamping discs the size of small moons because they'll look good, please just tell me this is a good idea so I can get on and buy them.'

:lol: That's true! OEM setup was perfectly fine for me on the road, even with modest upgraded pads. Fluid is key, 2 year intervals is a long time if you drive hard or on the track!

Lots of different experiences with brakes in general does make it confusing. I almost didn't get RSL29's as a few people I spoke to at TD's at the time turned their nose up at them saying they're like braking with two bits of wood between the calipers, no feel. In my limited experience though I've had no issues, maybe not the best feel but have so much confidence in them for the big braking zones, I'm pretty happy! Anyway, I digress!

 

[Justino]

Look what I have started!

Doubtful will be track use as I have a Clio 172 Cup for that. I've just come back from a spirited weekend in north Wales, and felt I wanted more confidence in the pads on the twisty mountain sections, so thought I would see what options were available. I know a tyre/brake pad post always gets lots of different opinions.

I'm no stranger to trying fast road pads, have have various pads on previous cars, Ds2500's, Pagid, etc. Years back I had Pagid on a Mk 2 Golf Gti, and my commute was the Snake Pass between Sheffield and Manchester. These worked really well, but didn't last long c 8k miles if my memory serves correctly. That doesn't bother me as I do low mileage and will change the pads my self.

The DS2500 I had were on a an E46 330. Worked well, although the read pads rattled slightly in the calliper, which was annoying, but didn't impact on performance. Whats the general consensus, to have matching pads front and rear, or is it not so important with the rears doing less braking?

The brake fluid was changed in the summer, and as part of the winter work I want to replace the rubber slider bushes to brass, and will do the hoses and fluid again to get the optimum out of the oe brake set up.

 

[ga41]

Another vote for RSL29s! I've had mine on RS29's for years on a mostly daily and fast-road driven Z4M on a big brake kit. They are very well performing, very, very good wearing and in my case squeal very infrequently. That said i'm going to replace them with DS2500 which i already bought as i don't track the car not nearly as much as i used to when i originally bought the Pagids.

 

[Ed Doe]

:lol: That's true! OEM setup was perfectly fine for me on the road, even with modest upgraded pads. Fluid is key, 2 year intervals is a long time if you drive hard or on the track!

Lots of different experiences with brakes in general does make it confusing. I almost didn't get RSL29's as a few people I spoke to at TD's at the time turned their nose up at them saying they're like braking with two bits of wood between the calipers, no feel. In my limited experience though I've had no issues, maybe not the best feel but have so much confidence in them for the big braking zones, I'm pretty happy! Anyway, I digress!

haha yeah I've been running RS29s on and off, I can't say they've been lacking in feel to be honest, I've been pretty impressed with them on road and on track full-stop. Just bought another pair of rears for next years' to that effect

ook what I have started!

Doubtful will be track use as I have a Clio 172 Cup for that. I've just come back from a spirited weekend in north Wales, and felt I wanted more confidence in the pads on the twisty mountain sections, so thought I would see what options were available. I know a tyre/brake pad post always gets lots of different opinions.

I'm no stranger to trying fast road pads, have have various pads on previous cars, Ds2500's, Pagid, etc. Years back I had Pagid on a Mk 2 Golf Gti, and my commute was the Snake Pass between Sheffield and Manchester. These worked really well, but didn't last long c 8k miles if my memory serves correctly. That doesn't bother me as I do low mileage and will change the pads my self.

The DS2500 I had were on a an E46 330. Worked well, although the read pads rattled slightly in the calliper, which was annoying, but didn't impact on performance. Whats the general consensus, to have matching pads front and rear, or is it not so important with the rears doing less braking?

The brake fluid was changed in the summer, and as part of the winter work I want to replace the rubber slider bushes to brass, and will do the hoses and fluid again to get the optimum out of the oe brake set up.

:lol: standard Z4 forum - I'm only surprised this hasn't degenerated into a Covid vaccine discussion yet :roll:

Based on the context something like Ferodo DS2500 is what I'd go for - Pagid RS29s or similar would be better at the 'hot' end of the scale but are more expensive and perhaps a bit overkill for your intended use in my opinion
One thing that might be worth doing if you have a bit of time before you need the pads is to keep an eye out for the pad pattern on ebay - I've managed to find a few sets of various Pagid Racing pads brand new in box for a chunk off the list price in the past... A quick check on the Pagid Racing website - the pad patterns for the Z4m appear to be 1295 for the front, and 2685 for the rear. The Pagid website is also very good for giving an overview of the various compounds they offer - so you kinda know what you're buying before you pull the trigger: https://www.pagidracing.com/en/products/racing-brake-pads.html


Hats off to you for looking to get the best of the OE setup before upgrading - there's plenty of performance left on the table with a few mods for sure - pads, fluid, the brass bushings you mentioned and then cooling mods. I think there was a guy selling a nice little kit for turning the font air-ducts in the Z4M bumper into Brake cooling ducts -might be of interest depending on how far you want to take it!

 

[wspohn]

My favourite pad materials right now are EBC Redstuff and Porterfield R4-S (these are for street use - tracking the car will call for a slightly different choice).

 

[wspohn]

If you were going to change pads on only one end of the car, it would be the fronts you'd want to swap out - the rears are adequate for normal use.

I like EBC Redstuff buthave Porterfield R4S on the front of the Z4MC, If you were going to do track days, the R4 -1 or E would be worth considering.