Brake fade!! Yoinks!!

S

ScoobyR1

Member
 Edinburgh
Hi there peeps

Just a quick question to ask if anybody has encountered brake fade with EBC pads?
I fitted MTEC discs and EBC "red stuff" pads to my 2003 2.5 E85 Z4. During a recent drive down the A68 across to the A7 I drove down a fairly nadgery extremely steep downhill road to Stow, on the way down I had to do some prolonged hard braking which eventually ended up with totally faded brakes.

I knew straight away what was up so slowed up and pulled over, luckily enough I was able to, to let the brakes cool off. But I've got to say I was slightly disappointed that they faded so readily, I've always used EBC pads on my race bikes and road bikes and never had issue with them, but I don't believe that EBC are as highly regarded in the 4 wheeled world as they are in the 2 wheeled?

To prevent re occurrance what suggestions can you guys offer? Complete refresh of brake fluid is 1st on the list but what pads would be a recommended improvement over the "Red Stuff" EBC's ?

Cheers
Stu :D
 
If low dust pads didnt compromise somewhere, all pads would be low dust versions imho.

I know of 1 other guy that had fading with ebc low dust pads (on the autobahn, and in the alps he held back), but I have no personal experience (for the above reason)
 
It may not have been the pad that gave up, it may be the fluid. How old is the brake fluid?

I've never used the Ultimax, greenstuff or Redstuff pads in the Z4M myself - went straight to Yellowstuff as I'd used them on my previous M5s.

Went from Yellowstuff to Bluestuff for commuting/fast road/track day use on the recommendation of a fellow marshal who works for EBC, but now that the car won't be a daily I've got on to Orangestuff (endurance pad), and the seem to have held up well after 27 70-80% laps of the 'Ring (was only shaking the car down after recently getting it back from the insurance repair).

They take a while to bed in properly, and you will get some deposits on the wheels during this process, but after that they're fine - albeit with a slightly soft pedal feel.
 
If it was the fluid, you would feel it in the pedal I think?
(very soft pedal with long travel where pad/disc fading gives hard pedal but just less brake, the feel that you're overshooting the corner)
 
Could be the fluid but its probably you are braking to much!
Think of using your brakes in a similar way to texting whilst on a premium rate whilst abroad :cry: You will be amazed how fast your Z will take the bends if you let it ...........
Brake short but hard...............Don't Brake soft and long ................Zen :slaphead:
 
I'd second the recommendation for Yellowstuff for most road / track applications. They under perform slightly when completely cold, but work well thereafter.
I found that really hard use significantly shortened the pad life (but not braking performance), so I switched to Bluestuff and haven't felt the need to change. I'm especially hard on brakes as I tend to brake very late and prefer short, technical tracks over those with long, fast bends.
If you're looking for a fast road pad or even for a few track days, try the Yellowstuff first, make sure you bed them in and consider uprated fluid.
 
When I had my z4 I had braided hoses with ATE TYP 200 fluid and red stuff pads and been no solid disc's and not once did I have any problems with fade this inducted a full track day at brands too.

I did however have the bigger 3.0si front brake upgrade though with callipers rebuilt.

How old are your dics's OP? What brand are they?

How old is the fluid?

Do you have standard rubber hoses?

I was actually rather impressed with the brakes for such a small outlay :)
 
When my Dad taught me to drive - over 40 years ago now - he said to save the brakes for when you really need them, so I tend to brake using the gears. Clearly car technology has moved on since then, but I still do it, even in the automatic Discovery I put it into "sport shift"(?) mode on long mode on long descents, saving the brakes for "special" occasions.
 
Hi guys
Thanks for all the pointers, I didn't think I was going to get a driving style critique :D If you knew the road I was driving down then "saving the brakes" may have been an option but as it was a considerable downhill and I didn't know the road I may have been "over braking" so point taken :oops: Mind though when the brakes are required and they fade you do tend to press harder on the pedal, exacerbating the problem :o

The feel at the pedal is fine all the time up until this instance, but the pads and discs were fitted in January so have had plenty time to bed in and haven't given any cause for concern. I am running standard brake hoses which on an '03 car maybe is asking a bit much and will look at replacing these but I think the simplest and cheapest would be to change the fluid. Also possibly look at "Yellowstuff" as they sound nearer to what I need.

Many thanks :thumbsup:
 
Even though you've had a few months use, I would consider a specific bedding in process such as this:

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/bed-in-theory-definitions-and-procedures/stock-brake-system-bed-in

I get through several sets of pads each year as my Zed is mainly used as a track car, and this certainly improves brake performance.
 
Astounded you manage to make brakes fade in a light sports car on a downhill public road.
I've taken a trailer over the Alps and Pyrenees on 'fun' roads with a 2 tonne Jeep on the back of an X5 on EBC discs and pads and no issues.

Aside driving style (which I won't comment on at all) I'd look at the whole set up of disks, pads and fluid. Change the fluid - it's due every 2 years. Check the disks are still in tolerance and bed the pads in properly. Red stuff pads are way aggressive enough for a road car.

If that doesn't fix it do the E46 330 disk conversion that's as cheap as chips
 
I had fade on OEM pads so upgraded to Yellowstuff and fluid change to Gulf dot 5.1 at the same time, never had any fade after that but they were really very dusty pads wheels were always filthy
 
Yes try changing to 5.1 fluid and as C10 states the E46 big brake change is an excellent and cost effective mod. :thumbsup:
I did both with my old Z.
 
I once had EBC red stuff and they were total rubbish (apart from the wheel cleanliness!). When I eventually changed them out, half worn, the friction material fell straight off the metal plate. Won't be going there again.

Now got DS2500s on Brembo discs, with regular fluid changes. Never had any kind of appreciable fade.
 
Can't comment on the pads as I'm still on a two year old set of pagids, despite 30k miles and two track days, with 50% left. Guess I'm a light breaker.

I've never experienced fade on the public road but have on track. Even on fluid that was less than a year old I noticed a difference in performance so that should be your first change. Don't be fooled by the assumption that DOT5.1 is always better, some DOT4 fluids exceed the 5.1 spec for much less money. Have a good read up of each fluid specs.
 
2006 2.5 Si. Bought a month ago with new EBC slotted and dimpled discs with Green Stuff pads. Experienced serious brake fade from just 2 hard dabs on the pedal coming down Porlock Hill. Glazed the pads and blued the discs. Scarey stuff (very). Going to ( I mean GOT To) try some different pads because these are not fit for purpose. Any recommendations?
 

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Read the instructions.
You got to hammer the brakes from 60 mph ish and do hard stops until total brake failure cool down and repeat.
Find a quiet country road.
Something to do with curing the compound.
I just put green stuff all round on new discs and they were terrible from new.
After the bed in procedure they are awesome.
 
http://ebcbrakes.com/ebc_brakes_product_feature/how-to-bed-in-new-brake-pads-by-ebc-brakes-on-cars-although-this-applies-to-all-brands-of-pads-being-used-for-track-day-and-race-use/
 
Yes its disconcerting when it happens! I've had it occur on my 3.0si twice on the same section of multiple tight bends which have straight between. On the rare occasions the routes clear and I'm in the mood and on form then the brakes give up about 2/3rds of the way to the end. I expect it though as the Zed gets hauled down from Max acceleration in 2nd and 3rd to consecutive very tight right and left handers. It's a great bit of road that seems to go on and on with tight 90degree bends over and over again. It's actually a route that follows lots of field boundaries. To be honest I'm not surprised, its a hell of a test for the brakes if I use all the zeds performance. On the usual more varied route, even on Hartside, the brakes have been fine. I haven't felt the need to uprate my brakes but the 3.0si has larger diameter discs and I believe in regular fluid changes.
Hope you get sorted :thumbsup:
 
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