Brake Fade and upgrading brake discs and pads

[cj10jeeper]

Where do you get 300 miles from?

Looking at the EBC site (not one of the resellers pretending to be EBC) it quotes:

Redstuff however as a harder compound does take longer to fully bed in to achieve its highest levels of performance (can be up to 1500 miles/2500 Kms urban use) during which time the odd “Chirp” of brake noise may be heard when starting from cold in damp and cold conditions at walking pace speed. One press of the pedal to clear the rotor of any dampness and this disappears to leave EBC Redstuff a pad that inspires confidence in all cars. The motto is be patient give the pads a full chance to bed down.

I also see that the redstuff are not listed for track on their selector chart. http://ebcbrakes.com/brakes-selector-chart/

Faster street use on muscle cars (slight rotor wind noise acceptable).
Redstuff

Low dust street use on prestige imports (silent braking required).
Redstuff

Fastest street and track use, trackday, time trials and drifting in any size or weight of car (on or off road).For longer races Bluestuff may be required for durability purposes.
Yellowstuff

High durability race pad also suitable for street driving.
Bluestuff


Not defending or supporting EBC in any way just pointing out so you don't charge in to their tech dept with possibly the wrong info.

 

[mmm-five]

Reviewed the box:
Red stuff. Semi Metallic track day or light rally use pad also suitable for heavier faster street cars. Effective up to 750 deg C with medium life time.
Allow pads to bed in for 300 miles (which is just about exactly what I did :? ).

Not trying to be argumentative, but where did you buy the pads, because as far as I know the Redstuffs have not been semi-metallic (they're kevlar/ceramic) since the last formulation change in about 2004 when the new owner took over.

 

[Bing]

Reviewed the box:
Red stuff. Semi Metallic track day or light rally use pad also suitable for heavier faster street cars. Effective up to 750 deg C with medium life time.
Allow pads to bed in for 300 miles (which is just about exactly what I did :? ).

Not trying to be argumentative, but where did you buy the pads, because as far as I know the Redstuffs have not been semi-metallic (they're kevlar/ceramic) since the last formulation change in about 2004 when the new owner took over.

Could they be knock-offs then ? Sure I read somewhere this was quite common...

 

[mmm-five]

Could they be knock-offs then ? Sure I read somewhere this was quite common...

If it was closer to the formulation change date then I'd say it was just them using the old boxes.

But after 9 years you'd think they'd have used up all the old boxes, and I've not got any EBC boxes lying around, so can't see if they've just not bothered to update the artwork!

 

[Toe-side]

Thanks For all the pointers. All valid stuff that has led me to re-examine the box and research on the internet after some of your pointers e.g metallic compound, not track day etc.
EBC materials before 2010 appear not to have great write ups even the trade.

(Scooby net qoute) "If you want to have a moan about OLD EBC material purchased before 2010 do this somewhere else, this is to help all EBC customers know what to expect from the LATEST materials. If you are of course in this test to compare what you used before to these latest materials, that's fine"

So hands up!
Bought them off Ebay................. and although new and boxed I think I have been sold old stock or copies (probably old stock) ! So it looks like I have been stitched. Some you win some you loose but every days a school day. I thought the price was keen.
Already given positive feedback as I bought them about 2 months ago.

Sorry EBC my error ................and once again thank you guys for preventing me diving in with my size 9 boots on!

Be gentle with me!

 

[cj10jeeper]

Pleased you seem to have avoided a potentially embarassing situation with EBC.

One thing that always concerns me about Ebay is the potential for dodgy stuff. After all it enters the supply chain somewhere and what better place than an on-line auction site, where we all like a bargain.

It'll be interesting to see if you get a set of new red pads how they perform.

 

[Toe-side]

Yup
Me and my bargains!
After enjoying the track day so much I am starting to look at upgrading to the 325mm Si front discs + carriers. So that will be a winter job unless a set make themselves easily available soon and easily.
I think I would give them another try but I'll be buying them direct!

 

[cj10jeeper]

Yup
Me and my bargains!
After enjoying the track day so much I am starting to look at upgrading to the 325mm Si front discs + carriers. So that will be a winter job unless a set make themselves easily available soon and easily.
I think I would give them another try but I'll be buying them direct!

I fitted the E46 330 discs and carriers a few years ago. Coupled with EBC Ultimax discs and pads its an awesome upgrade. Since the discs are so much larger and brake pad greater the effectiveness is significant.
Never had any pad or fading issues since.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Yup
Me and my bargains!
After enjoying the track day so much I am starting to look at upgrading to the 325mm Si front discs + carriers. So that will be a winter job unless a set make themselves easily available soon and easily.
I think I would give them another try but I'll be buying them direct!

Maybe give a thought to Yellow- or Bluestuff if you're serious about track days as it's just possible the Redstuff pads were genuine and simply not up to the task!

 

[Toe-side]

Yup
Me and my bargains!
After enjoying the track day so much I am starting to look at upgrading to the 325mm Si front discs + carriers. So that will be a winter job unless a set make themselves easily available soon and easily.
I think I would give them another try but I'll be buying them direct!

Maybe give a thought to Yellow- or Bluestuff if you're serious about track days as it's just possible the Redstuff pads were genuine and simply not up to the task!

Will do thanks for the advice. Is the disc wear accelerated excessively with these pads. I realise there has to be some trade off?

 

[Toe-side]

Yup
Me and my bargains!
After enjoying the track day so much I am starting to look at upgrading to the 325mm Si front discs + carriers. So that will be a winter job unless a set make themselves easily available soon and easily.
I think I would give them another try but I'll be buying them direct!

I fitted the E46 330 discs and carriers a few years ago. Coupled with EBC Ultimax discs and pads its an awesome upgrade. Since the discs are so much larger and brake pad greater the effectiveness is significant.
Never had any pad or fading issues since.

Sounds like the future! Already sent a few queries off to breakers. Need a off side front strut also!! Noticed its leaking.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

I had a scored disc after the Yellowstuff delamination incident, and Bluestuff polished it out in half a track day
In all seriousness, I'm sure that the harsher pads are more abrasive to the disc (and I currently need four new discs) but I've used Yellowstuff on one set of discs for about 25,000 miles and Bluestuff for around 5,000 miles on the same discs. My rear discs are pitted from corrosion around the cross drilled holes not overly worn whilst the fronts are at minimal acceptable thickness. In that time I've done around 15 trackdays and mostly spirited driving as the car is not my daily driver.

 

[Toe-side]

Doesn't sound excessive for the use that they have had. That's re-assuring.

 

[SkiNNeR]

I'm having trouble with the traction control and handbrake light. It keeps randomly turning the traction control off. i have no control over it either :/ just had a big journey to and from the Isle of Skye which was fun. Had the butt of the car out a few times too in the wet, but idealy i would like to have my traction control working! Anyone have any suggestions it came up with an error code 5E25 and 5E21 which is saying a brake pressure sensor.. no idea what to do. Don't really want to spend money on a new sensor then find out its something else. Any suggestions?

I thought it might have had to do with the rear pads getting onto the sensors but turns out new pads and discs have no helped this issue..

 

[Toe-side]

http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42396

Try the link above ....a few suggestions
Just bought 2 front calipers and carriers to upgrade to 325mm discs.
Nearly bought MGZT 190 brakes as after some research I realised they are the same caliper but I wasnt convinced that the carrier would be the same so I chickened out.
They were about half the price of the X3 ones I bought............never mind didn't want another "bargain"!