Boiler advice

chris6 said:
Tim
The condensate pipe can be pumped if no alternative . Tank & pump installed with a switch to control pump when condensate reaches a set level.If passing through loft pipe should be well insulated to avoid freezing. Termination of condensate pipe must meet regs as per normal.
Chris
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Great, thanks Chris thats really what I wanted to know and if possible to do as an alternative to relocating the boiler which I imagine will be alot more expensive, its something I can suggest to the plumber if he can't route the condensate pipe via the kitchen.

Tim.
 
cj10jeeper said:
So Tim after being adamant that you were sticking with the boiler now you're changing :) God move though as you'll save money and avoid the invitable January break down, rush job and related costs...

My advice would be to relocate the boiler to the garage. That's what we did and made it real easy to install a big water tank too , convert to pressured system and comply with all the regs of the drain pipe and air in/ out.

It's not as complex as you'd imagine and gets the boiler out of the way.
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Out of interest jeeper is your garage part of the house as mine is detached so wouldn't that make things more complicated routing gas supply etc.

Tim.
 
Yes Tim it is an attached garage. Not sure a detached would work very well.
I would however be creative and see where else it can go. Reroitimg was cheap and made a big difference.
My parents was hidden in a cupboard and had the pumped condenser you are considering. Bungalow and all vents go up to the roof.

Just as a side note out plumber changed the gas supply from 15 to 22mm to help the boiler run at max and efficiently.
 
Hi Tim. A good mate of mine (who I race bikes with) is a plumber and we met through me buying a new flat and having to get him out on an emergency call out twice through things the previous owner had hidden from us (and the survey). Since knowing him I've learned a fair few things about plumbing.

We had the system boiler (3 tanks) removed, shower pump and central heating pump removed and replaced with a Valliant Eco-tec Combi. It is very good and and out heating bills are significantly less than the 2 months we had the system boiler. I would go with Valliant as we got a 7 year warranty (as long as the boiler is serviced each year) and Stephen says their customer service is very good (as opposed to Worcester Bosch).

Also BG are over priced and only interested in sell you home care. They quoted us over £1000 more to do the boiler, then said they couldn't do it as we were on the 2nd floor and needed scaffolding to do the flue and resultant brickwork. Their regular servicing is a joke, they are in and out in about 30 minutes, where as I've seen Stephen do a service and he takes around an hour, disassembling the components, cleaning then and then reassembling, before carrying out a tightness test and leak test on all connections.

As for the condensing pipe, if the run to the waste outlet is long, you may need to have a condensing pump fitted. Stephen is actually fitting a condensing pump to a boiler of a friend who has bought a new flat soon and we were discussing it yesterday strangely. You are correct in saying that if gravity can't do the work you may need a pump, it's quite common.

As for the flue, if you need to the flue can be run through the house (you can even run through voids) as long as the flue pipe is inspectable at regular intervals for safety. I can't remember the regs. But I can find out if you need it (to see how much may need to be disturbed). These are the conditions that a new boiler would be fitted under. Ideally you want the boiler to be situated on an outside facing wall (for flue routing) but it is not totally necessary. Many plumber just move them due to ease and inexperience.

A good gas engineer should calculate all your flow rates (water and gas) and re-pipe to suit. They should also do all the heat calculations for each room to ensure that you are not over or under specc'd. I got all that (didn't understand it) when we had ours changed.
 
cj10jeeper said:
Yes Tim it is an attached garage. Not sure a detached would work very well.
I would however be creative and see where else it can go. Reroitimg was cheap and made a big difference.
My parents was hidden in a cupboard and had the pumped condenser you are considering. Bungalow and all vents go up to the roof.

Just as a side note out plumber changed the gas supply from 15 to 22mm to help the boiler run at max and efficiently.
Click to expand...

Thanks alot jeeper, yes unfortunately the garage is detached so don't really see it as a viable option. I've been looking around the house this morning for possible alternative locations and there really isn't anywhere suitable without major room alterations and expense which I want to avoid. I can only see the pumped option been the best one at the boilers current location and taking the pipe up into the loft and outside.

I've had a nose at my neighbours this morning who's house is the same but she had the walk in boiler cupboard taken out to enlarge the kitchen and the boiler relocated onto an external wall etc. A bit drastic for me to rearrange the whole kitchen just for a boiler :o

Tim.
 
Wildfire said:
Hi Tim. A good mate of mine (who I race bikes with) is a plumber and we met through me buying a new flat and having to get him out on an emergency call out twice through things the previous owner had hidden from us (and the survey). Since knowing him I've learned a fair few things about plumbing.

We had the system boiler (3 tanks) removed, shower pump and central heating pump removed and replaced with a Valliant Eco-tec Combi. It is very good and and out heating bills are significantly less than the 2 months we had the system boiler. I would go with Valliant as we got a 7 year warranty (as long as the boiler is serviced each year) and Stephen says their customer service is very good (as opposed to Worcester Bosch).

Also BG are over priced and only interested in sell you home care. They quoted us over £1000 more to do the boiler, then said they couldn't do it as we were on the 2nd floor and needed scaffolding to do the flue and resultant brickwork. Their regular servicing is a joke, they are in and out in about 30 minutes, where as I've seen Stephen do a service and he takes around an hour, disassembling the components, cleaning then and then reassembling, before carrying out a tightness test and leak test on all connections.

As for the condensing pipe, if the run to the waste outlet is long, you may need to have a condensing pump fitted. Stephen is actually fitting a condensing pump to a boiler of a friend who has bought a new flat soon and we were discussing it yesterday strangely. You are correct in saying that if gravity can't do the work you may need a pump, it's quite common.

As for the flue, if you need to the flue can be run through the house (you can even run through voids) as long as the flue pipe is inspectable at regular intervals for safety. I can't remember the regs. But I can find out if you need it (to see how much may need to be disturbed). These are the conditions that a new boiler would be fitted under. Ideally you want the boiler to be situated on an outside facing wall (for flue routing) but it is not totally necessary. Many plumber just move them due to ease and inexperience.

A good gas engineer should calculate all your flow rates (water and gas) and re-pipe to suit. They should also do all the heat calculations for each room to ensure that you are not over or under specc'd. I got all that (didn't understand it) when we had ours changed.
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Thanks for the info Wildfire much appreciated, :thumbsup: I do have the BG Homecare400 plan, costs me 34 quid a month and you are right when it comes to the annual service. All they do is take the front cover off the boiler and look at it lol. Rarely I've seen them actually clean the burner. They then poke their head into the loft to check the boiler flue, but rarely crawl up into the loft to visually inspect the flue closely. Their Homecare is only really any good for emergency call outs where to be fair they aren't too bad. I had the heating pump fail recently and booked a BG engineer online in the evening and he turned up the following morning and swapped the pump out with no fuss. Only thing I didn't like was his hard sell for a new boiler and arranged there and then for a heating supervisor to call round and see me. He wrote on the work form for the pump replacement "Boiler checked, 14 years old, no seviceable parts available, recommend to customer to replace boiler" He was quite persistent in getting a heating supervisor to call and see me. I cancelled the appointment after he left. No doubt he was after his commission. I went on BG website where you can get an online quote for a new standard boiler (non combi) and a Worcester Bosch was coming out and between £2600-£3000 for my property with X amount of rooms and radiators. This was supply and fit of the boiler only.

Again as with the condensate pipe I'm very limited with flue options which is why I would like to keep the boilers current position and use the existing flue otherwise its going to involve major room alterations and expense. If a condensate pump will do what I need then the jobs a gooden.

Tim.
 
Tim
Shame your stuck on the location as boiler are easily hidden in most houses these days.

Also take a look at the pump and reservoir. They are bulky. My parents is about 30x30x10 cm and is a reservoir with pump on top.
 
.. Or just an idea you could shut the room door and leave the chuffing thing alone.. :lol:

Ok ok sorry stuck record and what others have said is fine but just 3 days ago my 4 year old Vailliant Eco tec lunched it's diverter valve, a weak part on them, had domestic hot water but no heating, part re-placed and we're away again but that's my point, a new-ish boiler can cost more in bits early on than the small saving you'd make running a more efficient unit.

Anyway it's good we all have different opinions and you'll do what you think is best and that will be the right thing as you'll be happy. It's no mither to put a new one where your existing one is. :thumbsup:
 
john-e89 said:
.. Or just an idea you could shut the room door and leave the chuffing thing alone.. :lol:

Ok ok sorry stuck record and what others have said is fine but just 3 days ago my 4 year old Vailliant Eco tec lunched it's diverter valve, a weak part on them, had domestic hot water but no heating, part re-placed and we're away again but that's my point, a new-ish boiler can cost more in bits early on than the small saving you'd make running a more efficient unit.

Anyway it's good we all have different opinions and you'll do what you think is best and that will be the right thing as you'll be happy. It's no mither to put a new one where your existing one is. :thumbsup:
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John, I've promised not to venture into the boiler cupboard now until next year :thumbsup:

Happy New Year :)

Tim.
 
I had my annual British Gas service last week, the tech told me about a BG discount deal on new boilers. Reckons I could get my 15 year old Worcester Bosch replaced for around £2k. It's been a bit unreliable over the last few years (but all repairs have been covered under my BG maintenance contract), I'm tempted. Formal quote coming next week.

Any advice?

Happy New Year to all!
 
dr_john said:
I had my annual British Gas service last week, the tech told me about a BG discount deal on new boilers. Reckons I could get my 15 year old Worcester Bosch replaced for around £2k. It's been a bit unreliable over the last few years (but all repairs have been covered under my BG maintenance contract), I'm tempted. Formal quote coming next week.
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Ask friends/family/neighbours for recommendations for a GasSafe (was CORGI) plumber and get them to quote for the equivalent job... I'd be surprised if you don't find that they're a fair bit cheaper than British Gas...
 
dr_john said:
I had my annual British Gas service last week, the tech told me about a BG discount deal on new boilers. Reckons I could get my 15 year old Worcester Bosch replaced for around £2k. It's been a bit unreliable over the last few years (but all repairs have been covered under my BG maintenance contract), I'm tempted. Formal quote coming next week.

Any advice?

Happy New Year to all!
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I would be surprised if they could do it for 2K John, my online quote from them was nearly 3K so will be interested to see what they come back to you with.

I'm currently using a local Corgi registered fitter who's flushing my central heating through. A work colleague recently used him to fit a new Worcester boiler and replace all the radiators in a 4 bed house for just under 2K which I thought was pretty good and they recommended him to me. He's due to come back to drain the heating system down so will ask him for a quote and discuss the condensate pipe issue. I can see why going with British Gas is appealing as I've done it myself as they should perform to a certain standard which I've found with private plumbers can be a little hit and miss sometimes unless you can find one on recommendation.

I've been there with a private plumber, they were two brothers who came to change the bathroom taps and ended up smashing the wash basin which they did replace but then once they finally replaced the taps they managed to get air in the system so the water wasn't running smoothly in the kitchen ie they couldn't stop the tap glugging. They then bust a stopcock valve in the airing cupboard trying to get rid of the air lock getting water all over the place at which point I told them to get out of the house and had to get another plumber in. Once that kind of thing happens you get quite wary of so called tradesman so now I only go on other peoples recommendation.

Tim.
 
+1 Tim

Personal recommendation is the way to go.

When we replaced our entire CH system it was part of a project that involved taking our lounge back to bare brick and floor joists - all DIY over a period of 12 weeks. We put in 4 large (2m+ high) corner radiators and, as I wanted no pipework on show, the plumbers came back several times to fit in with my schedule with the final radiator installation in the lounge after I'd decorated - couldn't have been more pleased with their co-operative approach to the job, I'd never have got that from someone like British Gas
 
PerryGunn said:
+1 Tim

Personal recommendation is the way to go.

When we replaced our entire CH system it was part of a project that involved taking our lounge back to bare brick and floor joists - all DIY over a period of 12 weeks. We put in 4 large (2m+ high) corner radiators and, as I wanted no pipework on show, the plumbers came back several times to fit in with my schedule with the final radiator installation in the lounge after I'd decorated - couldn't have been more pleased with their co-operative approach to the job, I'd never have got that from someone like British Gas
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I think British Gas are ok for the hum drum small bread and butter jobs perry, changing pumps, general CH breakdowns but for the larger jobs like yours I would be hesistant to use them, unsure British Gas really want larger more involved jobs anyways and as you say find someone on recommendation.

Tim.
 
TitanTim said:
I've been there with a private plumber, they were two brothers who came to change the bathroom taps and ended up smashing the wash basin which they did replace but then once they finally replaced the taps they managed to get air in the system so the water wasn't running smoothly in the kitchen ie they couldn't stop the tap glugging. They then bust a stopcock valve in the airing cupboard trying to get rid of the air lock getting water all over the place at which point I told them to get out of the house and had to get another plumber in. Once that kind of thing happens you get quite wary of so called tradesman so now I only go on other peoples recommendation.

Tim.
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Sounds like a Laurel & Hardy production :rofl:
 
Hi Tim,

I work in this game but on the commercial side. I would strongly recommend that you arm yourself with a plan to replace the boiler and get costs from 2 or 3 plumbers. They generally base their prices on how old and vulnerable you are or what cars you have on the drive.... :D

With regard to the boiler itself I would stick with your current boiler until it becomes uneconomical to run it. Modern boilers are not even 20% as good as they used to be. Gas is not overly expensive so a slightly less efficient boiler is not going to break the bank. I have had 4 boilers in the last 15 years and I cannot remember which ones used to most gas etc.

Reliability is a big problem these days and if I had the money I would be looking at a Vaillant. Worcester are good but I have heard a few stories about problems. There is also the issue of the condensate. A pump will collect the condensate and pump at when the level reaches high level. This should be easy to pipe out if you have a decent route.

If it isn't broken etc etc.

H.
 
Yes - steer well away from BG. They are rip off merchants on boiler replacement charging around twice the going rate. Get a quote from a good independent plumber to compare.

There's another thread on this subject
 
Harvard and jeeper thanks so much for the advice :)

In terms of gas boilers themselves (non combi) what is the realistic life expectancy? or do they just keep on going until there is a part that fails that isn't available anymore? I can't believe what the Britsh Gas chappie said about my 14 year old Gloworm that serviceable parts are no longer available, it all smacks of sales patter all the time. I keep being told 10 years by people who fit them which to me doesn't seem a long time. I know there is the efficiency side of it and the temptation to change purely to have a more economical boiler but then its like any goods, fridges/washing machines/cars etc you would need to change them every year to keep ontop the technology and to have the latest in efficiency.

I'm starting to think like Harvard says if it aint broke don't fix it and if it does konk out its what a couple of days to fit a replacement.

There is also the new M135i fund to be thinking of :lol:

Tim.
 
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