BMW LL04. What engine oil for the Zed? Updated poll.

[kis]

So a few oil related posts recently, some suggesting that different 'winter' numbers and different viscosity will have better or worse effects on fuel consumption which is interesting. Anyway figured this would be good as the previous one I found was a few years older! (see here). I know it's a very subjective thing much like tyre pressures, but think it would be useful none the less.

So LL04 spec states there are 4 recommended oil types (shown in the voting options), which are all fully synthetic. Not too interested in branding otherwise it will get far too complicated. Please vote above!

 

[mjennings23]

I tend to use 5w40, mainly due to the higher mileage. I've used 5w30 before and the engine seemed to use more oil, how accurate this is, who knows but it works for me.

My most recent oil change was actually a LL01 spec too, but bearing in mind I have the M54 engine I see no issue with this, the engine was designed long before LL04 specification became a thing.

 

[paullyjay]

I'm a big fan of Mobil 1 5w30 for the M54

 

[ben g]

What are the benefits of 5w40 over 5w30?

I always use 5w30, but my engine has 125k on it now, so probably best to use something a bit thicker, from what I've read on here.

 

[Chris_D]

What are the benefits of 5w40 over 5w30?

I always use 5w30, but my engine has 125k on it now, so probably best to use something a bit thicker, from what I've read on here.

Personally, i think that's only a perceived benefit as so many different dynamics will have been at play over the engines' lifetime usage.
I ran an M52TUB25 engine for 250k miles on 10w40 for its entire lifetime and it still wasnt consuming a drop of oil between changes.
Mind you, I drove it like a nun and the rev needle never saw the redline.

 

[kis]

In a nut shell the number in front of W indicates the cold start viscosity (0° F). So you want this to be relatively low (as LL04 states either 0 or 5). As we've got pretty crappy weather but not super cold I think either are okay but consensus seems to be 5 rather than 0.

The number after the W is the viscosity at 212° F. I think for this most people run the 30. However I think that's just due to familiarity IMO. The consensus with people who've done a little digging is you increase (from 30) to 40 with higher mileage vehicles. Not exactly sure on why but as you said its slightly thicker and from what I've read people see a decrease in oil consumption after switching up to 40.

 

[mjennings23]

I think the main difference is the extra bit of viscosity when hot prevents it from seeping past the piston rings quite as much, therefore reducing the amount burnt off in combustion cycles.

If your car runs fine without using oil on 5w30, then there's no need to change. Mine uses noticeably less running 5w40 hence my choice. Neither will do any harm to the engine, as they're still within spec.

 

[heavymetalthunder]

I've been using Castrol Edge 5W-30 in my car (on 144k) and it seems fine with only maybe 1-2 small top ups needed through the year.

Although rather interestingly I noticed Castrol Edge 5W-30 no longer seems to be LL-04 spec and they now recommend 0W-30 or 5W-40. Not sure why the change and didn't actually notice this until after my oil change last month!

 

[Z4 - Kev]

Castrol Edge 5w-30 all the time for me.

M54, 120,000 miles. Never need to top it up, oil and filter changed every 12 months or sooner sometimes.

--------------------------

 

[Mr Tidy]

My Z4 has the N52 engine, so requires LL04.

I voted 5W/40, but that's only what it gets for top-ups. I think it gets 5W/30 when it's serviced by my Indy.

 

[andyf1140]

If you change the oil before the service indicator says you should how do you reset it and what's the consequence of doing so?

 

[Chris_D]

If you change the oil before the service indicator says you should how do you reset it and what's the consequence of doing so?

I'm doing 7500 mile changes 5w30 and leaving the (15k mile) service reset alone.
Super easy to do your own oil changes with a PELA pump. 30 mins tops and gets every last drop out.

 

[JamieZ4C]

I think the main difference is the extra bit of viscosity when hot prevents it from seeping past the piston rings quite as much, therefore reducing the amount burnt off in combustion cycles.

If your car runs fine without using oil on 5w30, then there's no need to change. Mine uses noticeably less running 5w40 hence my choice. Neither will do any harm to the engine, as they're still within spec.

This is my favourite answer. Basically, use LL04 5w30 if all is well. If oil consumption increases, use LL04 5w40.

 

[Ewazix]

I tend to use 5w40, mainly due to the higher mileage. I've used 5w30 before and the engine seemed to use more oil, how accurate this is, who knows but it works for me.

My most recent oil change was actually a LL01 spec too, but bearing in mind I have the M54 engine I see no issue with this, the engine was designed long before LL04 specification became a thing.

The requirement for LL04 oil post 2004 in the UK for the M54 engine was due to changes in fuel supplied in European markets, not the engine specification. The interaction between fuel and oil is much understood, in fact fuel quality has as much influence on oil use as the oil itself. I did a shed load of research here https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=96828&hilit
The bottom line was whichever market you are in you should use the oil specified in your book.

 

[mjennings23]

I tend to use 5w40, mainly due to the higher mileage. I've used 5w30 before and the engine seemed to use more oil, how accurate this is, who knows but it works for me.

My most recent oil change was actually a LL01 spec too, but bearing in mind I have the M54 engine I see no issue with this, the engine was designed long before LL04 specification became a thing.

The requirement for LL04 oil post 2004 in the UK for the M54 engine was due to changes in fuel supplied in European markets, not the engine specification. The interaction between fuel and oil is much understood, in fact fuel quality has as much influence on oil use as the oil itself. I did a shed load of research here https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=96828&hilit
The bottom line was whichever market you are in you should use the oil specified in your book.

From my own reading, what you say is true but LL-04 was primarily to help reduce emissions from diesel, without offering much difference for petrol engines.

Taken from BMWs own service documentation:

Longlife-04 oils
These have been developed to guarantee an optimum service life for the particulate filter in diesel
engines. These oils are stipulated for all diesel engines with particulate filter, but may also be used in
almost all other BMW engines.

And also

Longlife-01 oils
The quality of these oils is comparable to that of Longlife-04 and Longlife-01 FE oils and these oils can
be used in most BMW engines.

Recommended oils for 6-cylinder:
N52 LL04(5) LL01 LL01FE
M52TU LL04(5) LL01 LL01FE
M54 LL04(5) LL01
S54 SAE 10W60

5) Longlife-04 oils are only approved for spark-ignition engines in Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway
and Liechtenstein). They must not be used outside this area.

 

[Ewazix]

I tend to use 5w40, mainly due to the higher mileage. I've used 5w30 before and the engine seemed to use more oil, how accurate this is, who knows but it works for me.

My most recent oil change was actually a LL01 spec too, but bearing in mind I have the M54 engine I see no issue with this, the engine was designed long before LL04 specification became a thing.

The requirement for LL04 oil post 2004 in the UK for the M54 engine was due to changes in fuel supplied in European markets, not the engine specification. The interaction between fuel and oil is much understood, in fact fuel quality has as much influence on oil use as the oil itself. I did a shed load of research here https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=96828&hilit
The bottom line was whichever market you are in you should use the oil specified in your book.

From my own reading, what you say is true but LL-04 was primarily to help reduce emissions from diesel, without offering much difference for petrol engines.

Taken from BMWs own service documentation:

Longlife-04 oils
These have been developed to guarantee an optimum service life for the particulate filter in diesel
engines. These oils are stipulated for all diesel engines with particulate filter, but may also be used in
almost all other BMW engines.

And also

Longlife-01 oils
The quality of these oils is comparable to that of Longlife-04 and Longlife-01 FE oils and these oils can
be used in most BMW engines.

Recommended oils for 6-cylinder:
N52 LL04(5) LL01 LL01FE
M52TU LL04(5) LL01 LL01FE
M54 LL04(5) LL01
S54 SAE 10W60

5) Longlife-04 oils are only approved for spark-ignition engines in Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway
and Liechtenstein). They must not be used outside this area.

The links in the posts I linked to (getting complex) explained that there are two sets of confusing documentation in circulation from BMW. Firstly BMW HQ Germany for markets worldwide, then a follow-up from BMW USA when they realised that in the US they continued with higher sulphur fuels (petrol & diesel) long after Euro and other markets lowered sulphur content (Sulphur has a protective effect in the combustion cylinders). In the US LL04 varied depending on fuel type (petrol/derv), in Euro/UK markets the LL04 compensates for the lower sulphur content in petrol. I'm not sure which documentation you referred to (D, US, GB?) whats on the web is confusing, but the advice is oil spec should be by your book according to the market area i.e. LL04 for UK/Euro fuel supplies.

 

[Ducklakeview]

5w-30 fully synthetic Petronas LL04 for me. I buy it when on offer @ euro. Bought 4 x 20L last week for £43.99+vat.

Mike

 

[mjennings23]

The requirement for LL04 oil post 2004 in the UK for the M54 engine was due to changes in fuel supplied in European markets, not the engine specification. The interaction between fuel and oil is much understood, in fact fuel quality has as much influence on oil use as the oil itself. I did a shed load of research here https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=96828&hilit
The bottom line was whichever market you are in you should use the oil specified in your book.

From my own reading, what you say is true but LL-04 was primarily to help reduce emissions from diesel, without offering much difference for petrol engines.

Taken from BMWs own service documentation:

Longlife-04 oils
These have been developed to guarantee an optimum service life for the particulate filter in diesel
engines. These oils are stipulated for all diesel engines with particulate filter, but may also be used in
almost all other BMW engines.

And also

Longlife-01 oils
The quality of these oils is comparable to that of Longlife-04 and Longlife-01 FE oils and these oils can
be used in most BMW engines.

Recommended oils for 6-cylinder:
N52 LL04(5) LL01 LL01FE
M52TU LL04(5) LL01 LL01FE
M54 LL04(5) LL01
S54 SAE 10W60

5) Longlife-04 oils are only approved for spark-ignition engines in Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway
and Liechtenstein). They must not be used outside this area.

The links in the posts I linked to (getting complex) explained that there are two sets of confusing documentation in circulation from BMW. Firstly BMW HQ Germany for markets worldwide, then a follow-up from BMW USA when they realised that in the US they continued with higher sulphur fuels (petrol & diesel) long after Euro and other markets lowered sulphur content (Sulphur has a protective effect in the combustion cylinders). In the US LL04 varied depending on fuel type (petrol/derv), in Euro/UK markets the LL04 compensates for the lower sulphur content in petrol. I'm not sure which documentation you referred to (D, US, GB?) whats on the web is confusing, but the advice is oil spec should be by your book according to the market area i.e. LL04 for UK/Euro fuel supplies.

Granted, but let’s not forget the M54 engine and ancillaries were used in the E46, E39 etc before LL04 specification existed. Look in them books and LL01 will be the recommendation.

The fact is LL spec is irrelevant if you’re doing regular changes at half the interval such as myself anyway. As long as the oil is to ACEA A3/B4 then you aren’t going to run into issues.

 

[Ewazix]

............

Granted, but let’s not forget the M54 engine and ancillaries were used in the E46, E39 etc before LL04 specification existed. Look in them books and LL01 will be the recommendation.

The fact is LL spec is irrelevant if you’re doing regular changes at half the interval such as myself anyway. As long as the oil is to ACEA A3/B4 then you aren’t going to run into issues.

You are confusing the longevity of the oil, with an oil's dynamic properties in the combustion chamber when used with different types of fuel. The requirement for LL04 oil post 2004 in the UK for the M54 and other engines was due to changes in SAPS low sulphur fuel supplied in European markets, not the engine specification. i.e when the fuel changed in Europe the oil requirement changed.

ACEA A3/B4 oils include both semi-synthetic oils and Mid SAPS formulations which DO NOT meet LL04 so are not the same thing. Obviously not using LL04 isn't going to terminally damage your car, but LL04 is the the correct spec for UK low SAPS fuels so the correct advice is to use it. it costs little or nothing more so why not? :?

 

[mjennings23]

............

Granted, but let’s not forget the M54 engine and ancillaries were used in the E46, E39 etc before LL04 specification existed. Look in them books and LL01 will be the recommendation.

The fact is LL spec is irrelevant if you’re doing regular changes at half the interval such as myself anyway. As long as the oil is to ACEA A3/B4 then you aren’t going to run into issues.

You are confusing the longevity of the oil, with an oil's dynamic properties in the combustion chamber when used with different types of fuel. The requirement for LL04 oil post 2004 in the UK for the M54 and other engines was due to changes in SAPS low sulphur fuel supplied in European markets, not the engine specification. i.e when the fuel changed in Europe the oil requirement changed.

ACEA A3/B4 oils include both semi-synthetic oils and Mid SAPS formulations which DO NOT meet LL04 so are not the same thing. Obviously not using LL04 isn't going to terminally damage your car, but LL04 is the the correct spec for UK low SAPS fuels so the correct advice is to use it. it costs little or nothing more so why not? :?

Low sulfur fuel has been the standard in the UK since 1997 for Diesel and 2000 for Petrol. All BMWs produced between 2001 and 2004 were specced with LL01, earlier cars were LL98.

BMWs own technical description of the oil specifications signifies LL04 was designed for Diesel engines to help lower emissions, while offering little difference to LL01 in petrol engines.

Ironically, my car was built before LL04 spec was in place as the standard, so quite how it's implied LL01 is somehow incorrect doesn't make much sense, when that's what it was filled with off the production line.

My most recent oil change led to me using Shell Helix Ultra 5w40, the oil specified by Shell themselves as the ideal one for this engine. I highly doubt they're going to be wrong about that, are they? After all, they are currently the OE supplier of fluids to BMW.