Beyond a joke!

B

BSEZ4

Member
Ok so some will remember a couple of weeks ago my wing mirror glass fell out at high speed, smashing on the side of my car causing quite a bit of paint damage. I was having problems getting the dealer to sort it out as it was only 2 weeks after buying the car. The law assumes the fault was present at sale for first 6 months unless it can be proved otherwise so the dealer is liable for the cost of respray. Sent all this to the dealer, they agreed to sort it out, so drove to Whittlesey, quite a distance, £70+ petrol there and back. They have had my Zed for 10 days now, i chased this morning as i want my car back. I did not get the response i wanted.

Basically they havent done anything with it, they are now saying that it is not possible for the mirror glass to have done the damage that i claim and that they will not pay to have this fixed. ive gone back to consumer advice, but they are slow in replying (im doing everything in writing so i have full records incase i have to go to court). The dealer now wants £200+ to get it done which when coupled with the petrol costs and inconvenience of not having my car, having to borrow my mums, the insurance for the 2 weeks etc im over £300 out of pocket, will be closer to £350 im sure. :x
 
Consumer direct are useless, unless the garage Co operates you will have to take them to court. I think that is your only choice.
 
Sorry to hear this. Local Citizens Advice will give you a free half hour consultation with a solicitor - take advantage of this and see where you stand in terms of a civil claim. Suggest then a consolidated letter to the supplying dealer advising of what you will accept as a solution ie repair and replacement. Give them 7 days to respond (always do this in letters of complaint)- if not suggest County Court.
 
The most annoying thing is that they have my car, and have had it for 10 days. I need it back, but i need it sorted as well. I cant leave it with them whilst trying to sort out taking them to court etc. All just an unwelcome mess which i dont have time for. I dont have time to be writing on here but im too angry to work right now.
 
If court is the only way, remember to mitigate your costs as much as possible. I.e try to make sure you do the reasonable thing in saving money when dealing with this. E.g. trying to claim for the hire of a ferrari due to inconvenience will be frowned upon, whereas 'reasonable' costs associated with the trouble you have had to go to could be awarded if your claim is successful.
 
Yea theres no problems there. Petrol there and back £60, insurance on my mums car, £40 for a month (minimum they would cover), cost of having the respray is all id want covered. Christ im not even bothered about the petrol and insurance, i just want to car back to original condition, thats all that matters.
 
Arseholes. Threaten them with Watchdog, going to local press, spreading the word on forums etc. It may or may not have the desired affect but worth a try? If it was my business I wouldn't want my name being tarnished for the sake of a £200 repair. And lets face it won't cost them £200
 
So the dealer agreed to fix and then changed their mind without bothering to tell you until you chased it up? Mate, I'm absolutely bloody fuming at this and it's not even my car. In my opinion, they never had any intention of fixing the car for you but assumed you'd buckle once it was on their premesis and you had been without it for several days. Legal action needed.
 
M@r said:
{"]Arseholes. Threaten them with Watchdog, going to local press, spreading the word on forums etc. It may or may not have the desired affect but worth a try? If it was my business I wouldn't want my name being tarnished for the sake of a £200 repair. And lets face it won't cost them £200
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Please NEVER THREATEN like this - it really will bu**er up your chances in a County Court showdown. There is nothing more that pi**es a CC Judge off than and individual taking the law into their own hands to secure a remedy (as that is what it appears to the Judge to be) and then when that doesn't work going to court. :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

Get the vehicle back - it's your property, you owe them no money so have a right to recover. Photograph it on their premises before you take it back to show that the damage has not been caused subsequently. Take someone with you to verify this. Quite often doing it right like this will get many people to avoid a County Court judgement and just get on with the repair. Try the firm but gentle approach - empty threats will I can assure you get you nowhere. And remember that in any court case the burden of proof is on you to show the damage was caused by the mirror defect this burden being 'on the balance of probabilities' so less than the 'beyond resonable doubt of a criminal case. Please accept my advice is given in good faith and if you consider going to court then get a local lawyer to advise you.
 
Bradders75 said:
So the dealer agreed to fix and then changed their mind without bothering to tell you until you chased it up? Mate, I'm absolutely bloody fuming at this and it's not even my car. In my opinion, they never had any intention of fixing the car for you but assumed you'd buckle once it was on their premesis and you had been without it for several days. Legal action needed.
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Yeah thats pretty much the long and the short of it. Im in such a rage today i dont kno what to do with myself. Il figure it out when i calm down im sure.

AlanJ said:
M@r said:
{"]Arseholes. Threaten them with Watchdog, going to local press, spreading the word on forums etc. It may or may not have the desired affect but worth a try? If it was my business I wouldn't want my name being tarnished for the sake of a £200 repair. And lets face it won't cost them £200
Click to expand...

Please NEVER THREATEN like this - it really will bu**er up your chances in a County Court showdown. There is nothing more that pi**es a CC Judge off than and individual taking the law into their own hands to secure a remedy (as that is what it appears to the Judge to be) and then when that doesn't work going to court. :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

Get the vehicle back - it's your property, you owe them no money so have a right to recover. Photograph it on their premises before you take it back to show that the damage has not been caused subsequently. Take someone with you to verify this. Quite often doing it right like this will get many people to avoid a County Court judgement and just get on with the repair. Try the firm but gentle approach - empty threats will I can assure you get you nowhere. And remember that in any court case the burden of proof is on you to show the damage was caused by the mirror defect this burden being 'on the balance of probabilities' so less than the 'beyond resonable doubt of a criminal case. Please accept my advice is given in good faith and if you consider going to court then get a local lawyer to advise you.
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See this is not what i have been told. Consumer advice sent me a lot of info including:

"Under the Sale of Goods Act, any faults which occur within the first 6 months after purchase are assumed to have been present at the time of sale, and have only just become apparent. If the trader believes otherwise (for instance, if they believe the fault is due to fair wear and tear for a vehicle of that mileage, or is due to misuse or neglect) they have the right to carry out tests to prove their case. If they cannot do so, you are entitled to repairs, replacement or a partial refund as described above."
 
BSEZ4 said:
See this is not what i have been told. Consumer advice sent me a lot of info including:

"Under the Sale of Goods Act, any faults which occur within the first 6 months after purchase are assumed to have been present at the time of sale, and have only just become apparent. If the trader believes otherwise (for instance, if they believe the fault is due to fair wear and tear for a vehicle of that mileage, or is due to misuse or neglect) they have the right to carry out tests to prove their case. If they cannot do so, you are entitled to repairs, replacement or a partial refund as described above."
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Forgive me if I've read this wrong, but they're not contesting the fact that the mirror came off (which would be covered by the SoGA - but probably negated as wear & tear), but that it caused that damage (not covered by SoGA).

I can see it being quite easy to claim a 7/8 year old mirror might have fallen out due to wear & tear.

They don't have to prove it didn't cause that damage, you have to prove it did.

The other problem you may have if you go in all guns blazing, is that they may relent & do the work, but the work might be of really crap quality and you'll end up in another stand-off.
 
Eurgh, this is getting to be more of a headache than i can deal with. I dont want to go in all guns blazing as that rarely ends well. So you are saying that i am now in a position that i need to prove that the paint damage was caused by the mirror? Or that it was possible for the mirror, theoretically, to do the damage? As its impossible to prove that it did or didnt without a video of the incident.
 
BSEZ4 said:
Eurgh, this is getting to be more of a headache than i can deal with. I dont want to go in all guns blazing as that rarely ends well. So you are saying that i am now in a position that i need to prove that the paint damage was caused by the mirror? Or that it was possible for the mirror, theoretically, to do the damage? As its impossible to prove that it did or didnt without a video of the incident.
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If the dealer is questioning the cause of the damage, then yes!

If we agree that the damage is consequential to the failure of the mirror/holder/trim, then you have some questions to ask/answer...

1) Is the mirror failure classed as wear & tear, and thus not covered by SoGA?
2) Is the mirror covered at all under SoGA as it's a trim item?
3) If it is covered by the SoGA - and the dealer/trader agrees - does the SoGA cover consequential damages?
4) If the trader agrees to pay for the mirror, then is it worth the stress of forcing the trader to potentially do a poor repair job when you could just take it elsewhere
 
Well thats the thing, i sent them a letter detailing the information sent by consumer advice, and the damage caused. the dealer then phoned up, said yes sure, we will sort it for you. So i took the car back to them 70 odd miles away, dad followed in his car to bring me home (360 miles in total there and back for 2 cars with mine staying there) £80 petrol costs, plus the insurance on my parents car that ive borrowed only for them to back track and now demand payment. Surely there is some legal standpoint on breach of verbal contract? or not? Basically had they said all this before me dropping off the car id have gone through all of the discussion etc before driving up there. As now its going to cost me over £100 extra in travel and insurance which i wouldnt have had to pay had they not made an agreement and then back tracked.
 
BSEZ4 said:
Well thats the thing, i sent them a letter detailing the information sent by consumer advice, and the damage caused. the dealer then phoned up, said yes sure, we will sort it for you. So i took the car back to them 70 odd miles away, dad followed in his car to bring me home (360 miles in total there and back for 2 cars with mine staying there) £80 petrol costs, plus the insurance on my parents car that ive borrowed only for them to back track and now demand payment. Surely there is some legal standpoint on breach of verbal contract? or not? Basically had they said all this before me dropping off the car id have gone through all of the discussion etc before driving up there. As now its going to cost me over £100 extra in travel and insurance which i wouldnt have had to pay had they not made an agreement and then back tracked.
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Maybe they've realised it will take more work (i.e. to do it properly) than originally thought (chipsaway)- or that the mirror costs £100 not £10?

Sorry, but a verbal contract (with no witnesses/recording) is only worth the paper it's written on :headbang:

You need to (as calmly as possible) get a firm commitment out of them as to what they're now offering to do for you. Then you can point out what they've already back-tracked on, and expenses you've incurred/are incurring so far. You'll be unlikely to get any of the expenses back unless they've explicitly accepted those expenses BEFORE you incurred them, just as you wouldn't expect for them to pay you if you have to take a day off work due to a broken down car.

I agree with most of the others on here, and would also get (and have got) slightly irate with dealers for taking the proverbial.
 
Thanks for the advice. Ive sent a new email and will follow up with a phone call as soon as possible (at work so harder to make calls than to send emails etc.). Ive basically said that ive already covered the cost of the mirror (£104+VAT from BMW) as i had to make the car legal for the week before i could drop it off in order to hopefully make this whole situation smoother, so i wont try and claim that cost. Ive now offered £100 cash to get it done and out of the way, maybe showing weakness. Went onto say i dont want to take it any further to either the MIO or SCC but if i have to i will. I kept it as formal yet polite as possible as i really do want to get it sorted but dont want to be taken for a ride which is why i didnt agree to the full cost. Will see what happens.
 
Maybe ask to be refunded for the cost of the mirror instead. Then collect the car and get the paint/bodywork done at your own cost/leisure?
 
BSEZ4 said:
Ive basically said that ive already covered the cost of the mirror (£104+VAT from BMW) as i had to make the car legal for the week before i could drop it off
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There is no legal requirement to have wing mirrors (or even a rear view mirror) on a car.

Sounds like the real issue here is that the dealer (and I assume that we're not talking about an approved BMW main dealer?) agreed verbally to do the work, and is now renaging on that agreement. Have they admitted that they had agreed to do the work or are they denying this? If so, you're into "he said, she said", and without proof you are in a difficult position.

Let's hope that they accept your (generous) offer and you can get your Z back on the road.


Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
 
Right, 45 mins on the phone, lots of tooing and froing, and ive agreed on £125 to paint the whole side of the car, blended into all panels. Should actually be in better condition than when i bought it so not too annoyed. As long as they do a good job. Will post some photos when/if i ever get her back.
 
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