Best Ipod option

[JamesF]

I just fitted the intravee this weekend (you also need the alpine kca420i). Installation was way harder than I expected (six hours!) but the results are good. I also had to buy a usb-serial cable to update the firmware because it had a bug (menu kept disappearing). Impressed with it so far though. Got rid of the FM transmitter at last!

Is that the box thing? Thats pretty hefty if I remember correctly (and was about £100 when released) - I fitted the same to my old Elise. Attached to the underside of the dash with heavy duty velcro! Not sure where it'd go in the Z??

 

[Herminator]

6 hours that doesn't sound like fun, I think I'll live with my Z4 for a few months before considering the install. I listen to my ipod so much at work I'd probably just get more bored of the music I have on there.

 

[flanbmw]

Is that the box thing? Thats pretty hefty if I remember correctly (and was about £100 when released) - I fitted the same to my old Elise. Attached to the underside of the dash with heavy duty velcro! Not sure where it'd go in the Z??

It is indeed a box like thing. It is a little bit chunky. I have the subwoofers behind the seats and it was just a little bit too big to put there and still get the speaker grilles back on. In the end I stuck the Alpine in the boot (velcro'd to the back wall) and the intravee in the cubby hole. If you don't have the sub-woofers (I think they are part of the carver stereo upgrade?) then you can probably stick the alpine box in there and thread the cable to the intravee into the cubby hole.

I think I got the alpine box for about 55 quid.

 

[pvr]

With or without subwoofers, it will fit here:

 

[pvr]

6 hours that doesn't sound like fun, I think I'll live with my Z4 for a few months before considering the install. I listen to my ipod so much at work I'd probably just get more bored of the music I have on there.

I did it in less then 2 hours ...

 

[Herminator]

6 hours that doesn't sound like fun, I think I'll live with my Z4 for a few months before considering the install. I listen to my ipod so much at work I'd probably just get more bored of the music I have on there.

I did it in less then 2 hours ...

It would probably take me the whole 6, if not longer I'm not that quick with practicle things as I have trouble with my hands, although I could knock up a 3d model of it on a computer quickly enough

 

[bras0782]

A word of warning: beware of the DSP (if you choose the Dension or Dice route)

???


Display element is limited even with sat nav in my experience - is about 8 letters long and disappears before displaying anything useful. However the Dension kit offers the best integration and gets my vote.

The Dension won't work with DSP, not straight out of the box anyway. I've been having problems with the unit myself - bloody DSP :x !!

I'm tempted to just go for a simple AUX instead! :thumbsdown:

P.S. I'm referring to the new Dension Gateway units which have replaced the IceLinks - can't speak for the latter.

 

[bras0782]

One question on the Intravee, does it work with all Z4's? I know you need an ADC if you have DSP, but do all Z4s have iBus, or did this only arrive with the facelift?

Actually, come to think of it, what the heck is ibus?! :?

Do you know any more about the ADC and getting the Dension to work with DSP? I've been having problems with it. Every place I've called tell me it won't work with DSP. Dension themselves said I could use an ADC - but I know nothing about it and no one sells one.

 

[Laska]

One question on the Intravee, does it work with all Z4's? I know you need an ADC if you have DSP, but do all Z4s have iBus, or did this only arrive with the facelift?

Actually, come to think of it, what the heck is ibus?! :?

Do you know any more about the ADC and getting the Dension to work with DSP? I've been having problems with it. Every place I've called tell me it won't work with DSP. Dension themselves said I could use an ADC - but I know nothing about it and no one sells one.

From what I've read on Bimmerfest, you can't easily use an ADC with the Dension - am I right in saying the Dension plugs into the head unit in the cabin, rather than into the CD Changer harness in the boot?

All of what follows is just what I have pieced together from reading everything I can find on the subject. Some of it may be wrong (in which case can someone please let me know and I will edit):

I believe the issue is that in a digital DSP (i.e. older) car the CD changer socket that is used by the Dension (and the 'radio interface' version of the Dice) on the back of the stereo doesn't carry the audio signal, instead the audio feed from the CD changer goes straight to the DSP amp in the boot without passing through the head unit.

Only the control part of the CD changer signal (i.e. the signals to change track and disc) goes to the head unit - I think this is why you see a lot of posts for people with Dension or Dice kits where they can change track but cannot hear anything.

The Aux In works differently as there is an ADC in the head unit that the Aux signal passes through, so if the Dension uses the Aux In feed, then it should work fine (as it is converted to digital and then passed back to the amp). However, I think the Dension uses the CD changer socket, in which case it won't work easily.

The big problem with the Dension (or the 'radio interface' version of the DICE, there are two, a dash version which connects to the head unit and a boot version which connects to the CD Changer harness) is that you need to get the analogue signal all the way back to the amp in the boot, which means running cabling back through the car to the boot, plus you need to wire in the ADC somewhere (which needs a power feed I would expect).

The other thing to note is that I have found the Aux in on the Business head unit does not sound that great in my opinion, so I would personally avoid kits that use the Aux in feed to the stereo in a digital DSP car.

If I'm wrong in my assumption that the Dension is connected to the head unit and instead it connnects to the CD changer harness then the ADC should be fine. I haven't found a UK supplier, but EAS in the US sell ADCs: http://www.europeanautosource.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=230
They market it as a DICE accessory (as Dension kit isn't sold in the states anymore I believe), but I guess it would work with anything that gives an analogue line out that needs to be converted to digital. Check with their guy Tom, he is very helpful and knows his stuff.

Hope that helps a bit!

 

[bras0782]

Looks like we've been doing a lot of similar research lately - that post of yours just about sums up my knowledge on the topic

From what I've read on Bimmerfest, you can't easily use an ADC with the Dension - am I right in saying the Dension plugs into the head unit in the cabin, rather than into the CD Changer harness in the boot?

Yes it does, using the quadlock harness.

All of what follows is just what I have pieced together from reading everything I can find on the subject. Some of it may be wrong (in which case can someone please let me know and I will edit):

I believe the issue is that in a digital DSP (i.e. older) car the CD changer socket that is used by the Dension (and the 'radio interface' version of the Dice) on the back of the stereo doesn't carry the audio signal, instead the audio feed from the CD changer goes straight to the DSP amp in the boot without passing through the head unit.

Only the control part of the CD changer signal (i.e. the signals to change track and disc) goes to the head unit - I think this is why you see a lot of posts for people with Dension or Dice kits where they can change track but cannot hear anything.

This is my understanding too, except I don't have a CD changer. It's similar still - the audio still goes to the DSP for processing, and the quadlock socket just controls the non-audio bits (track changing, etc).

The Aux In works differently as there is an ADC in the head unit that the Aux signal passes through, so if the Dension uses the Aux In feed, then it should work fine (as it is converted to digital and then passed back to the amp).

But you can't control the tracks from the head unit

However, I think the Dension uses the CD changer socket, in which case it won't work easily.

The big problem with the Dension (or the 'radio interface' version of the DICE, there are two, a dash version which connects to the head unit and a boot version which connects to the CD Changer harness) is that you need to get the analogue signal all the way back to the amp in the boot, which means running cabling back through the car to the boot, plus you need to wire in the ADC somewhere (which needs a power feed I would expect).

The other thing to note is that I have found the Aux in on the Business head unit does not sound that great in my opinion, so I would personally avoid kits that use the Aux in feed to the stereo in a digital DSP car.

If I'm wrong in my assumption that the Dension is connected to the head unit and instead it connnects to the CD changer harness then the ADC should be fine.

I'm not familiar with the CD changer harness - is it the same thing as the quadlock harness?

I haven't found a UK supplier, but EAS in the US sell ADCs: http://www.europeanautosource.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=230
They market it as a DICE accessory (as Dension kit isn't sold in the states anymore I believe), but I guess it would work with anything that gives an analogue line out that needs to be converted to digital. Check with their guy Tom, he is very helpful and knows his stuff.

Hope that helps a bit!

Yeah, had a chat with him over PM on ZPost. He said I'd need the DICE Trunk Interface Harness for BMW and DSP Kit for DICE iPod Integration Kits - quite a costly solution if you include P&P at $40 and the price of the Dension Gateway unit itself.

The biggest problem I found when researching was that not many people know about the issues with DSP. This isn't helped by the fact that the newer Z4s have analogue DSP. It gets too messy - I've started hating the DSP :x

All I want is to connect my music player to the head unit - didn't expect so much grief. :thumbsdown:

 

[Laska]

Yes it does, using the quadlock harness.

I can't open the attachment.. do I need a login to view it? Where are you supposed to put the connections box (the bit with the USB connector and line in etc) in a Z4, does it go in the glovebox? I quite like the idea of that, I had a Dension before and really liked it, I prefer the way it operates to the DICE.

This is my understanding too, except I don't have a CD changer. It's similar still - the audio still goes to the DSP for processing, and the quadlock socket just controls the non-audio bits (track changing, etc).

I don't have the CD changer either, however the majority of Z4s are wired for the CD changer regardless of whether it is fitted. The DICE instructions for connecting via the CD changer show where to find the cables (you have to open the boot, fold down the firewall carpet and then you can get at the back of the compartment that is between the seats in the cabin - which is where the CD changer would be if it was fitted):

http://www.sixspeed.net/sixspeed/Z4M/DICE Z4 Installation.pdf

What those instructions don't show is the ADC connection (as they are not the instructions for the analogue DSP installation unfortunately).

The reasons to go for the centre console/boot install is so you can have the ipod in the centre cubby and also because if you need the ADC it is just a question of running the wire out of the hole in the firewall and under the boot carpet to the amp - which doesn't require running cables back through the passenger compartment obviously.

But you can't control the tracks from the head unit

Bugger! That suprises me, I can't think that analogue vs. digital should have any effect on the track changing.

Yeah, had a chat with him over PM on ZPost. He said I'd need the DICE Trunk Interface Harness for BMW and DSP Kit for DICE iPod Integration Kits - quite a costly solution if you include P&P at $40 and the price of the Dension Gateway unit itself.

Ahhh, possibly the penny drops... OK, that makes sense, so is he saying that you need to run the connection back to the boot, hook in the ADC and connect to the amp? Or is he saying that cable will allow you to install the Dension in the boot/cubby rather than connecting it directly to the head unit?

If Tom know's that definitely works then I reckon that will be a good solution, like I say I prefer the Dension and I like that you can update it's firmware - having to send the DICE back to the US every time they update the (reportedly buggy) firmware is what has put me off it and made me think about getting the intravee instead (which is even more expensive , but seems to operate the best and can also be software updated by the owner)

Mind you, I'm not sure how good the Intravee is with a Business head unit, as there is only one line for the display - I need to research what functionality there is with the Intravee and Business head unit.

The biggest problem I found when researching was that not many people know about the issues with DSP. This isn't helped by the fact that the newer Z4s have analogue DSP. It gets too messy - I've started hating the DSP :x

All I want is to connect my music player to the head unit - didn't expect so much grief. :thumbsdown:

Tell me about it, I ended up installing the Aux In over the weekend as a stopgap because I just couldn't get a definitive solution I was happy with!!

The other problem is that all the US based guys will say go for the DICE as it they can send it back to Tom (@ EAS) easily. For us UK based owners, that is not such an easy option.

People have been really helpful though, which is great, gotta love the internet!

 

[bras0782]

I can't open the attachment.. do I need a login to view it? Where are you supposed to put the connections box (the bit with the USB connector and line in etc) in a Z4, does it go in the glovebox? I quite like the idea of that, I had a Dension before and really liked it, I prefer the way it operates to the DICE.

Try this (Google'd it) :
http://www.smgc.co.za/images/BMW_ICELINK_CABLE.jpg

But you can't control the tracks from the head unit

Bugger! That suprises me, I can't think that analogue vs. digital should have any effect on the track changing.

That comment was for the AUX.

Ahhh, possibly the penny drops... OK, that makes sense, so is he saying that you need to run the connection back to the boot, hook in the ADC and connect to the amp? Or is he saying that cable will allow you to install the Dension in the boot/cubby rather than connecting it directly to the head unit?

If Tom know's that definitely works then I reckon that will be a good solution, like I say I prefer the Dension and I like that you can update it's firmware - having to send the DICE back to the US every time they update the (reportedly buggy) firmware is what has put me off it and made me think about getting the intravee instead (which is even more expensive , but seems to operate the best and can also be software updated by the owner)

Mind you, I'm not sure how good the Intravee is with a Business head unit, as there is only one line for the display - I need to research what functionality there is with the Intravee and Business head unit.

Agree with what you say, but it's a very expensive fix.

You touched on another good about the one line display on non-nav setups. All the kits out there cater for navigation and most comments/issues are related the full display - like full lists not appearing properly, not being able to scan through the lists, slow lists, etc...

Maybe between us we can figure out what works for an old Z4 without a CD changer or navigation, but plagued with the digital DSP

Tell me about it, I ended up installing the Aux In over the weekend as a stopgap because I just couldn't get a definitive solution I was happy with!!

Where did you buy the Aux, and how much? I'm tempted to stick with that and sell the Gateway 300 I bought. I'd feed the aux connector into the glove box instead of the ashtray compartment.

The other problem is that all the US based guys will say go for the DICE as it they can send it back to Tom (@ EAS) easily. For us UK based owners, that is not such an easy option.

Also because Dension pulled out of the US a couple of years ago so it's not available to them. I would have gone with the Dice if it supported USB flash like the Gateway 300.

People have been really helpful though, which is great, gotta love the internet!

So true

 

[Laska]

Try this (Google'd it) :
http://www.smgc.co.za/images/BMW_ICELINK_CABLE.jpg

Ah yes , with you, that's the composite connector block from the back left of the head unit? The CD changer connection in the boot is different to that , it has one 3 pin connector and one 6 pin connector IIRC.

That comment was for the AUX.

Sorry, with you now.

Ahhh, possibly the penny drops... OK, that makes sense, so is he saying that you need to run the connection back to the boot, hook in the ADC and connect to the amp? Or is he saying that cable will allow you to install the Dension in the boot/cubby rather than connecting it directly to the head unit?

If Tom know's that definitely works then I reckon that will be a good solution, like I say I prefer the Dension and I like that you can update it's firmware - having to send the DICE back to the US every time they update the (reportedly buggy) firmware is what has put me off it and made me think about getting the intravee instead (which is even more expensive , but seems to operate the best and can also be software updated by the owner)

Mind you, I'm not sure how good the Intravee is with a Business head unit, as there is only one line for the display - I need to research what functionality there is with the Intravee and Business head unit.

Agree with what you say, but it's a very expensive fix.

It is, but I don't mind the cost so much if it works and sounds good.

You touched on another good about the one line display on non-nav setups. All the kits out there cater for navigation and most comments/issues are related the full display - like full lists not appearing properly, not being able to scan through the lists, slow lists, etc...

Maybe between us we can figure out what works for an old Z4 without a CD changer or navigation, but plagued with the digital DSP

That is exactly my plan, get all the info, write a flowchart of the solutions and do an photo guide of the install - when I finally decide what to install!! Then tag the whole thing with as many references to analogue DSP as I can and save anyone else from going through this experience!

Tell me about it, I ended up installing the Aux In over the weekend as a stopgap because I just couldn't get a definitive solution I was happy with!!

Where did you buy the Aux, and how much? I'm tempted to stick with that and sell the Gateway 300 I bought. I'd feed the aux connector into the glove box instead of the ashtray compartment.

I just rang BMW Oxford and got them to send me one, the BMW part number for the retrofit Aux kit is 65120153502 (picture here: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BT32&mospid=47796&btnr=65_1441&hg=65&fg=95). It cost about £35 and includes about a metre long cable and a faceplate.

I haven't installed it properly , I just took the vents and stereo out, plugged it into the connector block, plugged a 3.5mm to 3.5mm extension cable into the socket and ran the extension cable out through the pop out panel below the aircon controls. I then just put the pop out panel back in place over the extension cable (i.e. I haven't drilled anything yet).

I then got one of these http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/griffin-tuneflex-aux-2008/ and plugged the 3.5mm into that. I am still experimenting with it, but it doesn't sound great. Last night I switched to the 'Dance' EQ settings on the ipod and that does sound a bit better to my ears. I have written more on this here: http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1483&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=60.

Like I say, I don't rate the Aux In with the digital DSP that hightly, but I am still experimenting with it. For £35 it may be worth a go though, I figured at least it meant passengers could plug in their non ipod MP3 players as well.

 

[Flycaster]

This is for those considering the icelink, if you can still get it (I have no experience with the Dice). If you don't mind having your ipod in the trunk, or it you are able to do the work needed to bring it forward into the verticle console, I would strongly recommend the trunk hook up over the hed unit hook up. Why? After carefull hooking the icelink into my HU and placing the ipod near the glove box (not in it in case the wrong person was looking to steal it), all played well. However, over time, I noticed a gradual degeneration of sound quality and intermittent speaker play (viz., sound would inappropriately jump around from speaker to speaker, or just not play in from a particular speaker). The fault lay in the icelink's quadlock hook up to the HU connector. It seems, that the wires leading into the quadlock stopped making appropriate conact and the intermittent problem that I experienced was due to the jiggling of the wires. My ghetto fix is posted elsewhere. Basically, I wrapped fishing line around the connection making sure that the wires wouldn't move...all is well now. If you get the direct trunk install and should need to make a fix, it will be a lot easier...or maybe, that connection won't even give you any problems.

 

[bras0782]

Ah yes , with you, that's the composite connector block from the back left of the head unit? The CD changer connection in the boot is different to that , it has one 3 pin connector and one 6 pin connector IIRC.

Indeed. You plug the existing block into one end and the other end into the back of the head unit, so it sits in series with the original wiring. There is a small connector which plugs into the Dension Gateway 300.

That is exactly my plan, get all the info, write a flowchart of the solutions and do an photo guide of the install - when I finally decide what to install!! Then tag the whole thing with as many references to analogue DSP as I can and save anyone else from going through this experience!

...and what a frustrating experience it is! Such a guide is very much needed.

I just rang BMW Oxford and got them to send me one, the BMW part number for the retrofit Aux kit is 65120153502 (picture here: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BT32&mospid=47796&btnr=65_1441&hg=65&fg=95). It cost about £35 and includes about a metre long cable and a faceplate.

I haven't installed it properly , I just took the vents and stereo out, plugged it into the connector block, plugged a 3.5mm to 3.5mm extension cable into the socket and ran the extension cable out through the pop out panel below the aircon controls. I then just put the pop out panel back in place over the extension cable (i.e. I haven't drilled anything yet).

I then got one of these http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/griffin-tuneflex-aux-2008/ and plugged the 3.5mm into that. I am still experimenting with it, but it doesn't sound great. Last night I switched to the 'Dance' EQ settings on the ipod and that does sound a bit better to my ears. I have written more on this here: http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1483&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=60.

Like I say, I don't rate the Aux In with the digital DSP that hightly, but I am still experimenting with it. For £35 it may be worth a go though, I figured at least it meant passengers could plug in their non ipod MP3 players as well.

So just to make sure before I buy, the aux kit just plugs straight into the back of the head unit - no DSP related problems (excpet the sound possibly)? At £35 it's worth a try.

How did you open the 'pop out panel'? Did you just get to it from behind the head unit and undo the clips around the edges? I tried that last ime, but to no avail - didn't try harder in case it broke.

One more thing - is that Griffin link you sent just a holder for your iPod?

Thanks

 

[Aebous]

50 bucks will get you a superb FM transmitter