BBK pad advice for hard track use
- Thread starter BMWZ4MC
- Start date
BMWZ4MC said:
I'm not too convinced the XP24 compound is a good choice for the rear as they need a lot of heat in them to get the coefficient of friction up and it sometimes can be hard maintaining a high temperature on the rear disks if the track isn't very twisty. They also have an extremely high initial bite which could result in some interesting underpant stains coming into fast bends. I just think you might find them a bit too inconsistent on the rear.
That’s a very good point about the aggressive initial bite. Since I’m often a little closer to complete loss of control than perhaps is wise, that might just finish me off! 
Interestingly, since fitting KW Clubsports, the car has very little pitch under hard braking and the rear brakes get just as hot as the front after a few laps. The rear pads seem to wear at 1.5 - 2x the rate of the fronts too. Since I switch off DSC, I presume the wear rates reflect the relative contributions to the overall braking effort. I agree though, a less aggressive pad would be a good idea.
Interestingly, since fitting KW Clubsports, the car has very little pitch under hard braking and the rear brakes get just as hot as the front after a few laps. The rear pads seem to wear at 1.5 - 2x the rate of the fronts too. Since I switch off DSC, I presume the wear rates reflect the relative contributions to the overall braking effort. I agree though, a less aggressive pad would be a good idea.
Might be worth checking what temps your brakes are getting too before buying any?BMWZ4MC said:That’s a very good point about the aggressive initial bite. Since I’m often a little closer to complete loss of control than perhaps is wise, that might just finish me off!
Interestingly, since fitting KW Clubsports, the car has very little pitch under hard braking and the rear brakes get just as hot as the front after a few laps. The rear pads seem to wear at 1.5 - 2x the rate of the fronts too. Since I switch off DSC, I presume the wear rates reflect the relative contributions to the overall braking effort. I agree though, a less aggressive pad would be a good idea.
I used to run EBC Blues on my track car, but if they get too hot they just crumble away - was getting 2-3 trackdays from a set on the front. Have now switched to Performance Friction PF08s and they're a lot better - have done 6 trackdays with great performance, and they're only half worn.
they do more aggressive compounds so could mix and match a bit (PF10s on the front, and 08s on the rear for example). Just throwing another name out there for you!
they do more aggressive compounds so could mix and match a bit (PF10s on the front, and 08s on the rear for example). Just throwing another name out there for you!
I’ve ordered a set each of Project Mu H21 and RayBestos ST45 pads through Tom’s contact (thanks again). He doesn’t have anything suitable for the rear callipers, so I’m planning to try them with Pagid RSL29s for the rear.
How that combination affects the balance under braking and pedal feel, will decide where I go next.
How that combination affects the balance under braking and pedal feel, will decide where I go next.
I’ve measured the temps previously with an infrared thermometer but I don’t have one at the moment. They’re readily available from eBay so I’ll get one before my next track excursion.RedUn said:Might be worth checking what temps your brakes are getting too before buying any?BMWZ4MC said:That’s a very good point about the aggressive initial bite. Since I’m often a little closer to complete loss of control than perhaps is wise, that might just finish me off!
Interestingly, since fitting KW Clubsports, the car has very little pitch under hard braking and the rear brakes get just as hot as the front after a few laps. The rear pads seem to wear at 1.5 - 2x the rate of the fronts too. Since I switch off DSC, I presume the wear rates reflect the relative contributions to the overall braking effort. I agree though, a less aggressive pad would be a good idea.
brillomaster said:
I found that with EBC Yellowstuff with stock callipers and discs. Changing to Bluestuff fixed problem but now I’m running APs in higher ambient temperatures, I’m seeing the same problem again. I’m hoping BTCC pads will be more than up to the task!
Agreed - the benefits of a well set up suspension were evident as soon as I applied the brakes at the end of the first straight. The car remained flat and stopping distances were markedly reduced compared with OEM or Eibachs with stock dampers. Being able to carry more speed through corners is an added benefit.exdos said:Hi Richard, glad you're enjoying Oz. Same with the AC Schnitzer Racing suspension on my Z4MC which highlights how bad the OEM suspension is and how the problem of pitch, roll and squat can be easily corrected to improve handling and performance.BMWZ4MC said:
With regards to measuring discs temps, rather than using an infrared thermometer with the car at stand still, you can but cheap adhesive indicators that you apply to the top outer edges of the disc. The stickers change colour permanently when the preset temperature has been a exceeded. You can get them in various transition point from 200’C to over 1,500’C!
I’ve not used Orangestuff but Bluestuff are absolutely good enough for track use with OEM callipers. I found Yellowstuff were ok for road use but overheated on the track.mmm-five said:If you're going for EBC, then Yellowstuffs are a fast road pad. Bluestuffs if you want to track it, and Orangestuff if you want to ruin your discs (or go racing)Argenta said:
Hmmm i wont be using bluestuffs again... proper pads are twice as expensive, but so far last at least 4x as long, so actual brake cost per trackday has halved. And the better pads feel better too.
My experience was the opposite...but on standard calipers.brillomaster said:
The RS29s lasted 2 Oulton Park trackdays (well, 1.5 actually as the inner N/S pad decided to fly out when braking down from 110mph into Knickerbrook at Oulton).
The Bluestuffs lasted 2 trackdays (at Oulton & Cadwell) and 2 x 30 lap Ring Trips.
Since I've gone over to the Porsche Brembos on all 4 corners, I like the feel of the RS29s more than the Bluestuffs (and took the Orangestuffs out after 4 laps of the Ring as I wasn't using them hard enough)...even if they cost me almost 3 times the price for half the life.
However, since I not doing the 20,000+ road miles alongside track/ring trips, I've noticed a huge downward trend of miles to replacements of discs/pads/tyres :thumbsdown:
I think my problems may have been related to a lack of cooling with the standard discs and calipers set up... I managed donington and snetterton on the old setup with bluestuffs, and by 4 in the afternoon at snetterton the discs were very very hot, fluid had boiled, and the pads were crumbling away.
when I switched the PF08s I also took out the front fogs which put in a lot more cooling into the wheel wells, so its possible another set of bluestuffs would have held up better, but at the time I'd only ever used EBC products so thought I'd try something different.
I guess key takeaway as always is heat management, need enough heat to get tyres and brakes up to optimal operating temperature, but then also a way of dissipating heat to keep things in their operating window after sustained lappery!
when I switched the PF08s I also took out the front fogs which put in a lot more cooling into the wheel wells, so its possible another set of bluestuffs would have held up better, but at the time I'd only ever used EBC products so thought I'd try something different.
I guess key takeaway as always is heat management, need enough heat to get tyres and brakes up to optimal operating temperature, but then also a way of dissipating heat to keep things in their operating window after sustained lappery!
