BBK pad advice for hard track use

BMWZ4MC

Lifer
Back in the sunshine
Many of you know that my ///M covered a large number of track miles each year in the UK and that I’ve progressively modified it over the last ten years to sharpen its track behaviour. With the relatively cooler ambient temperatures of the UK, I found that OEM discs and callipers were more than able to stand up to my rather aggressive late braking, at least once I’d fitted front brake cooling ducts, solid bushings, racing fluid and EBC Bluestuff pads. Whilst I didn’t experience any fade or other loss of braking ability with that set up, I did find that pedal feel became inconsistent as the brakes became very hot.

With that in mind and knowing that the temperatures on track here in Aus are much higher, I fitted an AP BBK front and rear immediately before shipping my car to Sydney. Since it landed, I’ve done three track days and found the APs to be fantastic. Stopping ability and pedal feel remain absolutely consistent long after I’ve started to lose concentration and no matter how much abuse I throw at the brakes (such as chasing a well-driven 991.2 GT3 RS and a less well-driven SLS Black at Wakefield Park - I lost to the former but passed the later after half a dozen laps).

However, the Bluestuff pads can get a little smokey and look like they have overheated after I’ve been pushing really hard. I suspect that they’re the weak link in the chain now, so I’m looking for advice from those of you who run a BBK front and rear on track, especially if you have APs.
For example, I think I recall someone describing an undesirable rearward shift in brake bias when using ultra aggressive pads at the rear as well as the front, but I can’t find that thread now. I don’t really mind how noisy the brakes are on the road, how ineffective the pads are from cold or how much dust they produce, I just want to know that I’m not going to hit the back of an ultra rare million dollar supercar when my brakes fail!

The disc bell started life painted black, as did the calliper - these brakes get seriously hot!

5BBD67A8-5EDD-400C-AE44-89D22B7B0E90.jpeg
 
EBC do a race-spec Orangestuff pad, but I couldn’t get enough heat into them at the Ring to be confident that they’d work at the next corner...but might be something for you to try on a hotter/twistier track.

I’ve now settled on Pagid RS29, which are expensive, but consistent.

Although, these are in Porsche Brembo callipers.
 
Thanks mmm-five. Eastern Creek is a fairly long lap with high speed sections between heavy braking zones, so allows more brake cooling, whilst at Wakefield Park there’s only one straight of a decent length to cool the car.
Have you found that RS29s all round upset the balance of the car under heavy braking? I know we’ve discussed our respective driving styles previously and I suspect you’re a little smoother thank me and further from the limit of adhesion most of the time!
 
I used to run RSL29 all round, pretty hard to fault, perhaps a little rearwards in bias but nothing too severe. I drove Dave's car with your brakes on with the blue stuff and whilst good for the money they do not offer the performance of the 29 nor I suspect the longevity.
I'm now running ex BTCC Project Mu H21 at the front which I've found to be very similar in performance but 1/5 the price. They do not have the pad removal tabs though as they are cut off, means you can get a lot of pad rattle at low speeds. Another downside is they like to munch through discs. Drop me a pm if you want me to put you in touch with the guy who sells them.
 
I used Pagid blacks on my race e36 M3, races between 6 and 10 laps on technical 3.5 to 3,8K tracks here in NZ and performed well. I also used pagids on my 911 RS for sprints and again good, no fade, Motul race fluid and s / lines of course.
 
TomK said:
I used to run RSL29 all round, pretty hard to fault, perhaps a little rearwards in bias but nothing too severe. I drove Dave's car with your brakes on with the blue stuff and whilst good for the money they do not offer the performance of the 29 nor I suspect the longevity.
I'm now running ex BTCC Project Mu H21 at the front which I've found to be very similar in performance but 1/5 the price. They do not have the pad removal tabs though as they are cut off, means you can get a lot of pad rattle at low speeds. Another downside is they like to munch through discs. Drop me a pm if you want me to put you in touch with the guy who sells them.
Thanks Tom, are you still running the RSL29 at the rear with the H21 at the front? Has that improved the balance?
I’ll send you a PM for the supplier’s contact details, cheers :thumbsup:
 
Haggisman said:
I used Pagid blacks on my race e36 M3, races between 6 and 10 laps on technical 3.5 to 3,8K tracks here in NZ and performed well. I also used pagids on my 911 RS for sprints and again good, no fade, Motul race fluid and s / lines of course.
Cheers. My zed is lighter now than when it left the factory, but your race car is likely much lighter. That said, I’m not sure I run 30-40km at a time on the track.
 
The balance with the Brembos & Pagids all round seems excellent, and actually better than OE balance...but that’s probably more due t getting ride of the twitchiness of the OE chassis settings.

Mine hasn’t had major weight saving surgery, just the Pole Position ABE Seats and Rogue Diablo exhaust really.
 
BMWZ4MC said:
Haggisman said:
I used Pagid blacks on my race e36 M3, races between 6 and 10 laps on technical 3.5 to 3,8K tracks here in NZ and performed well. I also used pagids on my 911 RS for sprints and again good, no fade, Motul race fluid and s / lines of course.
Cheers. My zed is lighter now than when it left the factory, but your race car is likely much lighter. That said, I’m not sure I run 30-40km at a time on the track.
The M3 would be lighter though smaller rotor size than your AP’s. They were standard size BMW M3 evo floating rotor’s on front and standard m3 on rear and I had a 4 rotors slotted to help the gases escape. Standard calipers all round.
I liked the Pagids because they still had bite from cold and maintained good front to rear balance keeping the car nice and straight under heavy braking. Mind you, the alignment set up helped that as well.
Weight reduction though is a great thing, The soundproofing and carpets in the M3 weighed heaps so removing these alone makes a difference. As my car was road registered under a Motorsport authority card, to make it semi habitable I retrimmed using a very lightweight carpet along the lines of the 1992 911 RS I owned. Looked quite good.
Hope you find a good solution.
 
Fairly sure it was the previous-but-one owner of my M who was saying about the ap kit rear bias with aggressive pads - I'm sure I recall reading it as part of my research on the car!

I've yet to get mine on track myself so no worthwhile input on this thread yet annoyingly! Watching with interest however for options when the time comes :lol:

Tom I'm definitely interested in those project mu pads if you don't mind pm'ing me the contact too!
 
Argenta said:
I use Carbotech XP8 all around on my std-ish brake setup, works a treat.
Another vote for carbotech, used them for many track days and ring trips on other cars and they are excellent pads that don't eat discs :thumbsup:
 
Carbotech pads are superb albeit quite dusty. The XP8 is similar performance to the Performance Friction Carbon Metallic .11 compound but the latter give off far less dust and are about half the price!

The Carbotech range does go quite a lot above the XP8 though. See here... http://www.carbotech-europe.com/compoundstechnical.html
 
Good thread on pads here btw... https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=109697&hilit=friction
 
ph001 said:
Carbotech pads are superb albeit quite dusty. The XP8 is similar performance to the Performance Friction Carbon Metallic .11 compound but the latter give off far less dust and are about half the price!

The Carbotech range does go quite a lot above the XP8 though. See here... http://www.carbotech-europe.com/compoundstechnical.html

Thanks, I’ll ask them if they make XP24 pads for my rear BBK.
I’m going to contact Tom’s BTCC source for front pads and I’ll try running them variously with Pagids or these at the rear.
 
exdos said:
I've heard good things about Carbone Lorraine pads but no experience of them.
Hi John, good to hear from you. I’ve read good things too but I need to look into whether that’s from people using them for fast road and light track use or in a dedicated track car.
 
Back
Top Bottom