Back-end out

B

bras0782

Member
The back-end of my car came out for the first time yesterday and I have no idea how I managed it. 10metres from a stop start at a traffic light I took a left turn at speed and the back came out for a split second before sorting itself out. It was safe and on a wide dual carriageway and I wasn't going that fast because I'd moved off from a stop position. All computer settings like DSC were on as normal. I was just having a spirited drive home without trying anything silly so no idea how I did it.

It was a rush :evil:

How can I do it again (without disabling the DSC)? Is it safe to do this especially with space and no cars around? Does it happen when taking wide turns at speed or do I need to brake at some point? :scratchhead:
 
Sounds like too much power pushing the back end round - called oversteer :evil:

Safe if you know how to handle if the electronics get things wrong... Wouldn't make a habit of it personally on public roads :D There may not be cars around but what about people/cyclists/dogs etc :P
 
Classic power induced oversteer. Watch it on any episode of Top Gear

Regardless of the electronics if you give it enough they rear will break away and then it does it's best to correct it, taking the split second you talked about. Of course if you do it too much, say on ice or high speed then all the electronics in the world are no use...lol
 
The DSC is incredibly effective. Power through a corner with a sharp stab of throttle and it will only let the back wiggle for a split second before cutting power. Unless the roads are sheet ice or very wet anyone could control it.

If you turn it of its still quite hard to break the rear away as there is literally tons of grip. You can provoke it and have a go though (providing circumstances allow) :thumbsup:
 
I find it hugely frustrating when I forget I have DSC :headbang:

Lovely corner, quiet, ripe for play... slip... BAM, DSC has grabbed it, chance over :rofl:

If you are somewhere quiet and have the chance, take DSC off - in my opinion it is very bad to get a reliance on DSC, it is doubtful you will have the Z4 forever. I plan on an old school TVR as a weekend car sometime in the future, if you've driven everywhere prior to this relying on DSC, you are in trouble.
 
Mine has stepped out a few times in the wet but as said above not something i try to do on a regular basis not keen on tapping a kerb or worse the other week i went out very early on a Sat morning bit of ice around and she snapped very hard to the point i felt it in my lower back the young lady who was driving right up my arse must have though what the f**k :o
 
I'm very tempted to take mine out on my dads fields (farm) once the ground has firmed up a bit but it's a tad damp... my brother and I used to drive old rwd Sierra's round before I could drive on the road and it's a great place to learn.

It might sound a little silly but I'd like to see how DSC/DTC and then nothing, all work in a huge wide open low grip environment (last summers turf ground so it's flat and smooth as a pancake, just with grass on top)

I guess a wet condition skidpan is the best place but I'm sure it won't be cheap.
 
Mr Whippy, why don't you just find a quiet parking lot and take it for a spin? Surely, with the cold snap a couple of weeks ago in England you must be able to find some frost at night? :driving:

That way you'll avoid getting your paint messed up with gravel and dirt :thumbsup:
 
Somewhat encouraged by this thread, i took the long route home tonight through an industrial estate - big lorry-designed roundabouts. I got from exit 2 back round to exit 4... sideways. I'm starting to get the hang of it now.
 
alex85, Enjoy - just don't blame me when you dent a wheel or fender ;) :!: :!: :!: :thumbsup:

We had 10" of snow here last night, complete havoc in the streets today. Took the Zed for a spin late last night and was amused to find several 4x4 stuck in the snow while I drifted by sideways :P
 
Ive had 3 years practice of rear wheel drive fun in my Mk1 MR2, i can hang the back end out on that all day long. Wouldnt dare risk trying it in the Z4 yet. :wink:

Having only had the Z4 for a few weeks i'm still coming to grips with its limits and the way in which the RFT's behave.
 
DO NOT BRAKE!!! If you start to skid either oversteer (rear wheels lose traction) or understeer (front wheels lose traction) the worst thing you can do is brake, you will crash if you brake. Even with ABS it's best not if your sliding sideways.

If you have the traction control on, DO NOT dip the clutch, ease off the gas or reduce power (don't come off totally though, sometimes you need to keep a bit of power on. Depends on the situation to be honest) and steer into the skid, i.e. if your turing left and the car steps out the the right, turn the wheel to the right.

The only surefire way of learning how to control a skid or how a car reacts whilst skidding its a skid pan, which aren't cheap, but I personally feel should be part of a driving test. Through work I have had the privilage to experience a skid car twice for a full days training each time.

I'll say it again now though, DO NOT BRAKE if you skid it can result in serious problems.
 
Problem with DSC is that it will always try and correct you, and send you on the your way... in the direction that it thinks you want to go... i.e. in the direction the wheels are pointing...

Therefore, if you lose the back end by accident with the DSC on, and the DSC can't stop it, the natural thing to do is to try and control it, bit of opposite lock etc. I find that DSC corrects you to the extent it will quite happily spit you into a wall in whatever direction the wheels are pointing at the time. I think the important thing to remember with DSC is that you need to keep steering where you want to go. I find that DSC breeds complacency.

I honestly think that provoking it from time to time, when you have the chance, will make you a much better driver. You need to bond with the car, understand its strengths and weaknesses, understand what it does well. So when something unexpected happens, you understand and know how to sort it. DSC just confuses things. DSC is perfect for the naive 'normal' driver. Our wives for example. Those of us that enjoy the drive, will only be inhibited by the DSC.

Honest, get out there and start to get to know your Z!! :thumbsup:
 
alex85 said:
Problem with DSC is that it will always try and correct you, and send you on the your way... in the direction that it thinks you want to go... i.e. in the direction the wheels are pointing...

Therefore, if you lose the back end by accident with the DSC on, and the DSC can't stop it, the natural thing to do is to try and control it, bit of opposite lock etc. I find that DSC corrects you to the extent it will quite happily spit you into a wall in whatever direction the wheels are pointing at the time. I think the important thing to remember with DSC is that you need to keep steering where you want to go. I find that DSC breeds complacency.

I honestly think that provoking it from time to time, when you have the chance, will make you a much better driver. You need to bond with the car, understand its strengths and weaknesses, understand what it does well. So when something unexpected happens, you understand and know how to sort it. DSC just confuses things. DSC is perfect for the naive 'normal' driver. Our wives for example. Those of us that enjoy the drive, will only be inhibited by the DSC.

Honest, get out there and start to get to know your Z!! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

You had me up until the part about wives. Some of us on here ARE wives and drive our Zs pretty darn well, thank you very much! :evil:
 
Hahaha, hilarious! Seems like Alex85 shares my view that wives shouldn't be allowed to drive anything larger than the vacuum. -Then again, maybe that's why I'm single? :P
 
alex85 said:
Problem with DSC is that it will always try and correct you, and send you on the your way... in the direction that it thinks you want to go... i.e. in the direction the wheels are pointing...

Therefore, if you lose the back end by accident with the DSC on, and the DSC can't stop it, the natural thing to do is to try and control it, bit of opposite lock etc. I find that DSC corrects you to the extent it will quite happily spit you into a wall in whatever direction the wheels are pointing at the time. I think the important thing to remember with DSC is that you need to keep steering where you want to go. I find that DSC breeds complacency.

I honestly think that provoking it from time to time, when you have the chance, will make you a much better driver. You need to bond with the car, understand its strengths and weaknesses, understand what it does well. So when something unexpected happens, you understand and know how to sort it. DSC just confuses things. DSC is perfect for the naive 'normal' driver. Our wives for example. Those of us that enjoy the drive, will only be inhibited by the DSC.

Honest, get out there and start to get to know your Z!! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Very well put (well apart from the bit about the wives...) I was being more subtle by saying DSC can get things wrong (I have been there in another car) and not to rely on it :thumbsup:
 
Yeah, the wives part, I don't even have a wife, just a GF... I was just trying to get my point across. No offence intended obviously! :driving:
 
Mrs CJ would slap your legs if she'd read the initial post. She's the only lady (being careful in case she reads..lol) I know who can get the Zed tail happy on the way back from Tesco with a week's shopping in the boot .. :rofl: Still I suppose a few laps of Donnington in a Ferarri and then Caterham and a few hours skid pan training have not harmed the cause.
 
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