Automatic versus manual transmission
- Thread starter Lotus1
- Start date
I guess its just horses for courses! Ive got a 3.0si auto after coming from a Mazda RX-8 manual.
Autos definetly far far better for commuting, crawling in traffic and crusing. Manual is more fun for those Sunday morning blasts.
In 'Sport' mode the downshifts are pretty quick, and if the need arises you can just floor it or blip the throttle which drops a gear and then cling onto the steering wheel for dear life!
The flappy paddle gear box is there if you fancy having a go at cog shifting yourself but to be honest the novelty wore off for me after about 2 weeks.
There will be a price/cost diff too. Autos are typically £1k+ more new or used, fuel consumption is pretty decent in std mode (but a bit worse in 'Sport') and brakes won't last as long.
Autos definetly far far better for commuting, crawling in traffic and crusing. Manual is more fun for those Sunday morning blasts.
In 'Sport' mode the downshifts are pretty quick, and if the need arises you can just floor it or blip the throttle which drops a gear and then cling onto the steering wheel for dear life!
The flappy paddle gear box is there if you fancy having a go at cog shifting yourself but to be honest the novelty wore off for me after about 2 weeks.
There will be a price/cost diff too. Autos are typically £1k+ more new or used, fuel consumption is pretty decent in std mode (but a bit worse in 'Sport') and brakes won't last as long.
lotusdmc said:Hi Lotus1, I'd like to think I can offer some relevant advice here !, I owned an elise for 18 months then an SLK 320 autoand now have a 3.0si sport coupe. The merc auto box was a real smooth slush box and never felt like a sports car, however the Z4 box is far superior. I has the choice of a manual or auto z4 coupe and chose the auto without driving one as the 100 mile daily communte in a manual 525d became a chore.
I am very pleased with my decision as in sport mode and with the paddle shifts (which I use 90% of the time) the change can be very snappy and it feels like a good racer ! (albeit not a patch on an audi DSG box). However even in sport mode it still will often give slushy up changes, particularily at the rev limiter, :evil:
Also it is very frustrating on down changes when you are hustling along, I think some of it relates to the very short 1st (30mph) and 2nd (58mph) gears and it will often not use 1st at all in full auto even when stopped, rather it will stay in 2nd and take off in that.
I do miss the ability to feather the clutch on a down change from 3rd but as a daily driver the auto is a must for me, and afte 13,000 miles in 6 months I never tire of the kick down and perfect up shifts !
Thanks Lotusdmc...appreciate the feedback - I guess you went through a similar thought process to myself
Hey Lotus1,
I think Citation 650 said it best ... get whatever you prefer.
Personally, I love driving manual trannies. But I have to say I'm a bit surprised that no one here has brought up the quirk of the CDV with the manual tranny, which makes low gear changes pretty difficult to execute smoothly. When I bought my Z4, I put aside this tendency during my test drives, knowing that I would be making the modification ASAP after purchase. Had I not know about the CDV in BMWs beforehand, I likely would have ended up with a different car altogether.
If you're still uncertain about manual vs. automatic, do yourself a favor and read up about the CDV. There's a bunch of posts on this forum about the topic and you can also read more about here: http://www.zeckhausen.com/cdv.htm
I think Citation 650 said it best ... get whatever you prefer.
Personally, I love driving manual trannies. But I have to say I'm a bit surprised that no one here has brought up the quirk of the CDV with the manual tranny, which makes low gear changes pretty difficult to execute smoothly. When I bought my Z4, I put aside this tendency during my test drives, knowing that I would be making the modification ASAP after purchase. Had I not know about the CDV in BMWs beforehand, I likely would have ended up with a different car altogether.
If you're still uncertain about manual vs. automatic, do yourself a favor and read up about the CDV. There's a bunch of posts on this forum about the topic and you can also read more about here: http://www.zeckhausen.com/cdv.htm
templed said:
Within 2 days I learned to drive with the CDV. No jerks, no wobbles, no kangaroos or bunny hops. I can spin the wheels from a dead start and shoot out from a junction, no problem. I really don't see what all the fuss is about concerning this device.
And, with much respect Templed, the zeckhausen link you give in your above post is trying to sell a modified valve, which is hardly going to give a balanced opinion.
Even as a complete newbie to Z4's, and driving for that matter, I would suggest to Lotus1 that he/she take the cars out for a test drive and discover that the CDV isn't really all that much of a problem. If a relative newcomer such as myself can easily handle the CDV then i'm sure a seasoned Alfa/Lotus owner won't have much of a problem at all.
rosierobins
Member
Ignitor said:templed said:
Within 2 days I learned to drive with the CDV. No jerks, no wobbles, no kangaroos or bunny hops. I can spin the wheels from a dead start and shoot out from a junction, no problem. I really don't see what all the fuss is about concerning this device.
And, with much respect Templed, the zeckhausen link you give in your above post is trying to sell a modified valve, which is hardly going to give a balanced opinion.
Even as a complete newbie to Z4's, and driving for that matter, I would suggest to Lotus1 that he/she take the cars out for a test drive and discover that the CDV isn't really all that much of a problem. If a relative newcomer such as myself can easily handle the CDV then i'm sure a seasoned Alfa/Lotus owner won't have much of a problem at all.
can you help me then? Cause I still have to concentrate on starting in 1st and 2nd.
rosierobins said:
Sure, send a first class ticket to PO BOX 32, Wilmslow and i'll spend a weekend showing you how it's done.
I think it must be because this is only the fourth car i've ever driven, and the others were nowhere near the high standard of a Z4, so as a relatively new driver (5 months today :dance2: ) I can say i'm still learning to drive and hence don't drive the Z4 as I would any other car. I've not picked up any weird habits that may inhibit the way I drive, I guess. 1st gear is so short in my 6-speed that I'm very quickly into second but have a slow left foot lift-up action. I dunno, I can't really explain it, it's become second nature, thankfully.
WIth CDV it becomes more of a timing thing rather than feel.rosierobins said:
You have to clutch slower than the fluid moves through the CDV orifice.
The other benefit sans CDV, is a lighter pedal effort.
It takes less effort to clutch because fluid isn't being restricted.
Ignitor said:templed said:
Within 2 days I learned to drive with the CDV. No jerks, no wobbles, no kangaroos or bunny hops.
Have to agree and disagree with you. I too am a first time owner...and first time manual owner at that. So the CDV valve was no big deal. BUT now that I'm comfortable with the car, as soon as I start to drive aggressively, I get all jerky and Kangarooey!!! Is this the experience of others too?
Yup - and as much as I was in denial of the CDV being an issue when I first got the car I am delighted that I finally bailed on the OEM part and installed a modified one instead.
Right after I had it done it dawned on me that this was one of my biggest complaints about the clutch with my wife's X3. Nice twist is that the part for the Z4 CDV is also the same one for the X3. That one is now gone as well and my life with an active left foot is much happier with both vehicles
I hate being the idiot that brings a thread back on topic, but even after over 40 years worth of manual transmission cars and no intention of buying an automatic I still feel that any new buyer needs to assess this question with their daily drive as the front and center determining factor. I don't have a nasty commute in stop and go traffic - in fact mine is a nice short 10 minute job on uncongested back roads. I have on occasions been stuck in both Portland and Seattle area freeway traffic in (un)rush hour conditions that would leave me thinking long and hard about my need for a clutch. It s not uncommon to drive for 5-10 miles of freeway in Portland and never get out of first gear and never exceed 3K RPMs. That distance can take up to an hour on a bad day and there are plenty of them anymore.
I would very likely go out and buy myself something like a Geo Metro with an automatic and a seriously nice after market sound system as a commute car if I had to endure something like that every day.
Right after I had it done it dawned on me that this was one of my biggest complaints about the clutch with my wife's X3. Nice twist is that the part for the Z4 CDV is also the same one for the X3. That one is now gone as well and my life with an active left foot is much happier with both vehicles
I hate being the idiot that brings a thread back on topic, but even after over 40 years worth of manual transmission cars and no intention of buying an automatic I still feel that any new buyer needs to assess this question with their daily drive as the front and center determining factor. I don't have a nasty commute in stop and go traffic - in fact mine is a nice short 10 minute job on uncongested back roads. I have on occasions been stuck in both Portland and Seattle area freeway traffic in (un)rush hour conditions that would leave me thinking long and hard about my need for a clutch. It s not uncommon to drive for 5-10 miles of freeway in Portland and never get out of first gear and never exceed 3K RPMs. That distance can take up to an hour on a bad day and there are plenty of them anymore.
I would very likely go out and buy myself something like a Geo Metro with an automatic and a seriously nice after market sound system as a commute car if I had to endure something like that every day.
I think it has been described here rather nicely, and given that this post's essence was that of preference .. there's really no right or wrong answer.
True, a good driver can adjust to the CDV. I don't consider myself a good driver per say, but I have driven manuals for quite a while, and prefer the clutch to have feel as opposed to adjust to the timing of the CDV.
In the spirit of the original question ... try the manual, if you like it, then cool, if not then the mod is pretty simple and fun to do with a friend with a beer on the weekend.
The important thing is that you like the Z4 ... the rest is gravy
True, a good driver can adjust to the CDV. I don't consider myself a good driver per say, but I have driven manuals for quite a while, and prefer the clutch to have feel as opposed to adjust to the timing of the CDV.
In the spirit of the original question ... try the manual, if you like it, then cool, if not then the mod is pretty simple and fun to do with a friend with a beer on the weekend.
The important thing is that you like the Z4 ... the rest is gravy
A
Anonymous
Guest
Well last summer I bought a z4 and the thought never even crossed my mind that I would by it in automatic, the sheer thought of it would make me shudder.
But there she was a navy blue fully loaded beige leather beige top.......you know the rest. I saw that it was a automatic, hesitated and then just drove it, at first I thought it was ok then the salesperson showed me how the steptronic worked and I was very impressed it worked perfectly and was performant enough for me and works very well. My other car is a passat 1.8t manuel not the same type of car, but plenty fun to drive the same and has a very peppy 1.8 turbo engine. So I have the best of a little bit of everything I guess, try the tip and it may do the trick for you.
Dustin
But there she was a navy blue fully loaded beige leather beige top.......you know the rest. I saw that it was a automatic, hesitated and then just drove it, at first I thought it was ok then the salesperson showed me how the steptronic worked and I was very impressed it worked perfectly and was performant enough for me and works very well. My other car is a passat 1.8t manuel not the same type of car, but plenty fun to drive the same and has a very peppy 1.8 turbo engine. So I have the best of a little bit of everything I guess, try the tip and it may do the trick for you.
Dustin
X2. That... and I'm still a control freak in this point in my life. Gotta have my 6 speed. 8)enfield said:I like manual because in North America a lot of people do not know how to drive manual
That means that I do not have to deal with lots of people who want to try my car.... I have to say 'no' less often due to this!
bingboybri
Member
ive looked at this post and you all talk about bmw's having the cdv ,do all bmw's have them as i went from a 330d man to a z43.0 auto and didnt notice any difference in the clutch on the 330d to my merc van or any other cars ive driven over the past 18 years.......