Audio upgrade (another post...)

J

jonas123

Member
Hi all,

I have the standard 6 speaker set up, which as you all know is terrible. I have upgraded the door speakers to the MINI ones, and added some tweeters. However the sound really is a bit crap.

As i'm planning on keeping the car for a bit, I want to try and make this better. I don't know much about the audio system, but I believe that the main issue is the amp(?). Is there a way of doing a simple plug and play replacement of the stock amp that will make things better? Or do i need to do a lot more work. Or do I even have an amp???

Thanks in advance
 
I assume yours is an E89? in which case the standard 6 speaker set up doesn't have any amp! Others have indicated that changing the door speakers to the Mini ones and adding tweeters makes a big difference, did you not find this to be the case? I have the same set up and I am looking to change the door speakers to something like the two way components from the likes of Eton or Focal etc and then adding some subs to the kick panel powered by an amp mounted in the boot.
 
I thought not! Yes the mini speakers and tweeters made a difference, but i would say from terrible to bad.

I wonder if I can buy a stock BMW amp off ebay and try to retrofit, but not sure if this is a simple job or more involved...
 
I think it might be a lot more involved. Probably simpler just to wire in an amp and most likely cheaper too.
 
Your 'simple' six pot stereo is wired through to a BMW Active Sound Device to the speakers..this was (on the E89) only fitted to the N20 engined versions 18i 20i 28i :tumbleweed:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e89-z4-sdrive20i-roa/wiring-functional-info/body/audio-video-telephone-navigation-most-ring/sound-output/stereo-speaker-system/HTAe3pPm

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e89-z4-sdrive20i-roa/wiring-functional-info/body/audio-video-telephone-navigation-most-ring/sound-output/stereo-speaker-system/GaRdAReW

So the audio from your radio unit is routed through the ASD box onto the speakers..

Several points..

For each make of BMW/Mini there are several different versions of the same physical speaker so just replacing an E89 mid range speaker with a Mini mid range speaker is no guarantee of improvement.. :thumbsdown:

In addition, in your car, the ASD does three functions:

1) It acts as a 4 channel 15w (not sure if that's RMS, PMO, or what) amp
2) It injects a brum brum sound to make your car sound like a 6 pot car
3) It digitally processes the audio signals to 'adjust' for your speaker/quality and the cabin

So, in an ideal world, you would do a clean install or something increasingly complicated, like load a new DSP audio processing image into the ASD to compensate for your change of speakers..

The 'simple' approach is to buy an OEM replacement speaker from say Eton or Audison who specialise in simple unplu/swap/plug new speakers in..

Figure on around £150 -£200 per pair.. or for you £300 to £400..

After that it gets rapidlly more complictated.. and expensive..
 
My 35i has the basic audio, no door tweeters etc.
Is the wiring for the tweeters already in the door does anyone know?
 
mcbutler said:
My 35i has the basic audio, no door tweeters etc.
Is the wiring for the tweeters already in the door does anyone know?
Click to expand...

I think the wiring is in there on the basis that they only used one harness were possible..I had the 11 speaker system so had the oe tweeters in there already..

A simple option given the location of the existing mid range speakers is to go with the co-axial mid range/tweeter in one unit from Eton or Audioline 👌

It’s relatively easy to retread the cable through from the tweeter location to the mid range location ..don’t ask me how I know..🙈
 
To hijack this thread, I would also like to modify my factory system, however mine has the logic 7 system. I would like more low frequency sound, so considering adding a small sub into the boot pass through hatch. Although I have the subs behind the seats, they don’t really appear to do a great deal. I would say the mid range in the kick panels produce more sound.

What is the best way to tap into a signal source on this system to feed to an additional amp?
 
Pooltee said:
To hijack this thread, I would also like to modify my factory system, however mine has the logic 7 system. I would like more low frequency sound, so considering adding a small sub into the boot pass through hatch. Although I have the subs behind the seats, they don’t really appear to do a great deal. I would say the mid range in the kick panels produce more sound.

What is the best way to tap into a signal source on this system to feed to an additional amp?
Click to expand...

I put a 300 w RMS class D amp into two Audioline Woofers replacing the original behind the seats versions and they don’t do much, it may be my setup with the DSP setup of the Fischer Audiotech replacement amp.

If you put a subwoofer in the boot with much more volume it may work better.

Given that there is no spatial info required for the subwoofer you could simply tap the two front channels where they go into the amp and put them through a y signal combiner

https://www.radialeng.com/product/mix-21

Or a two channel amp driving a dual coil sub woofer.

The output from the ASD which in in your car has a 2.5v not 600mv output which you can adjust with an amp with adjustable gain and frequency roll off.

With the ASD with a sub woofer you will get a lot more synthetic brum brum sounds coming through..
 
Pbondar said:
mcbutler said:
My 35i has the basic audio, no door tweeters etc.
Is the wiring for the tweeters already in the door does anyone know?
Click to expand...

I think the wiring is in there on the basis that they only used one harness were possible..I had the 11 speaker system so had the oe tweeters in there already..

A simple option given the location of the existing mid range speakers is to go with the co-axial mid range/tweeter in one unit from Eton or Audioline 👌

It’s relatively easy to retread the cable through from the tweeter location to the mid range location ..don’t ask me how I know..🙈
Click to expand...

I thought the BMW tweeters came with the wiring which then just plugs into the door speaker, see the photo below it seems to have the wiring and crossover built in:

Screenshot 2020-03-01 at 21.51.21.png
 
Pbondar said:
Pooltee said:
To hijack this thread, I would also like to modify my factory system, however mine has the logic 7 system. I would like more low frequency sound, so considering adding a small sub into the boot pass through hatch. Although I have the subs behind the seats, they don’t really appear to do a great deal. I would say the mid range in the kick panels produce more sound.

What is the best way to tap into a signal source on this system to feed to an additional amp?
Click to expand...

I put a 300 w RMS class D amp into two Audioline Woofers replacing the original behind the seats versions and they don’t do much, it may be my setup with the DSP setup of the Fischer Audiotech replacement amp.

If you put a subwoofer in the boot with much more volume it may work better.

Given that there is no spatial info required for the subwoofer you could simply tap the two front channels where they go into the amp and put them through a y signal combiner

https://www.radialeng.com/product/mix-21

Or a two channel amp driving a dual coil sub woofer.

The output from the ASD which in in your car has a 2.5v not 600mv output which you can adjust with an amp with adjustable gain and frequency roll off.

With the ASD with a sub woofer you will get a lot more synthetic brum brum sounds coming through..
Click to expand...

Many thanks for this. Really helpful. Will my car definitely have the ASD? I can’t say I have noticed any generated engine sounds ever coming through the speakers.

With regards to tapping into the front speakers, will they have a full frequency range going to them? In my 3 series I have the awful stock 6 speaker set up, and was advised the only place that I would be able to gain full range is off the underwear subwoofers.

If I did have ASD, would I be better tapping off from the ASD module, or closer to the speaker (or does it make no difference?) I am looking to put a 10” driver with a shallow enclosure into the ski hatch. Have even looked at the kicker square subs as this may be a better fit with what we have to work with in these cars.

Cheers

Paul
 
Just been doing a bit of research online and have come across this document.

https://f10.m5post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=799221&d=1356199286

Looks like the ASD was only fitted to the 28i according to this?
 
I’m pretty sure all UK spec N20 engined Z4s do have it fitted.

You can check as it sits on the boot side of the rear bulkhead on the left hand side next to the GSM unit. It’s an alloy casting about the size of 20 cigarettes with a single 42 pin connector going into it.

The ASD is good in it fools most of the people most of the time..I never realised I had it until I put a new amp and 11 new speakers with much deeper bass response.

Remember at 2400 rpm even it it’s mimicking a 6 cylinder then that only it’s a 120 hz noise so it’s only with extended bass does it suddenly appear much/very pronounced

If you are going to physically intercept the cables then it’s better to intercept them before they go into the ASD.

The front pair of speakers are for sure full range signals..I believe the rears are but couldn’t guarantee it..
 
Pooltee said:
Just been doing a bit of research online and have come across this document.

https://f10.m5post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=799221&d=1356199286

Looks like the ASD was only fitted to the 28i according to this?
Click to expand...

That was a US doc written for people in the US market here only the 28i was imported not the 18i or 20i

Same thing happens for example on the 4 series gran coupe tech info where it makes no reference to the 30D and 35D as they are not imported into the US...
 
Ah, everyday is a school day. I didn’t even notice it was a US document :oops:

Could it be that my ASD is perhaps not working or is it just not a very noticeable feature. All I can hear is the real exhaust noise, and that is not exactly loud :(
 
Pooltee said:
Ah, everyday is a school day. I didn’t even notice it was a US document :oops:

Could it be that my ASD is perhaps not working or is it just not a very noticeable feature. All I can hear is the real exhaust noise, and that is not exactly loud :(
Click to expand...

The low end fall off on the mid range speakers and the kickers in the foot wells if fitted are underpowered so it is subtle , BMW have spent over 200m euros perfecting it according to reports in science journals..

General consensus is that it ‘contaminates’ the audio signal so best avoided..

Snag is the radio power on control is routed through it so unplugging it defeats the radio....I used an expensive US sourced bypass cable ..

https://technicpnp.com/product/asd-bypass-harness/

If you fit better amps/speakers it will suddenly sound like you’ve sawn the back end of the exhaust in a very nice way...but totally synthetic

I now waft along in silence bar a bit of rear tyre noise..
 
Silverstar said:
Pbondar said:
mcbutler said:
My 35i has the basic audio, no door tweeters etc.
Is the wiring for the tweeters already in the door does anyone know?
Click to expand...

I think the wiring is in there on the basis that they only used one harness were possible..I had the 11 speaker system so had the oe tweeters in there already..

A simple option given the location of the existing mid range speakers is to go with the co-axial mid range/tweeter in one unit from Eton or Audioline 👌

It’s relatively easy to retread the cable through from the tweeter location to the mid range location ..don’t ask me how I know..🙈
Click to expand...

I thought the BMW tweeters came with the wiring which then just plugs into the door speaker, see the photo below it seems to have the wiring and crossover built in:

Screenshot 2020-03-01 at 21.51.21.png
Click to expand...
Yes, if using OEM tweeters and OEN door speakers then the wire from the tweeter just plugs into the second socket on the door speaker.
Adding the tweeters will "crisp" up the sound, but that's all it'll do.
Now if you have the basic sound system (no iDrive) and you don't have this ASD thing (as I'm not sure how this would affect it) you can upgrade the basic headunit to the later version with built-in Bluetooth and USB control (you may even have either Bluetooth or USB already but these will go to the MULF in the boot which could then be by-passed). With this later headunit they must have fitted a better internal amp as it improves the sound quality by at least 50%. I originally did this just to have the USB control and had no idea I was about to improve the sound so much as well.
The downside here though is that to have the use of the Bluetooth and USB then it would need coding to the car, but it's a relatively straight forward job to do for someone who knows how to code.
At the end of the day there is nothing wrong with the standard set-up apart from the lack of sound from the headunit. The speakers work fine and give good sound..... unless you want to deathen yourself, but that's you choice. Unless you are into sound-off competitions then why spend a fortune in a car environment? It squeaks, rattles, there's road noise, pot-holes, wind noise etc AND it's a convertible! :driving:
 
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