Armed police in the UK - discuss

Finisterre said:
I am not sure about our American contributor's perspective.

30 police were killed by guns in the UK in the last forty years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty
There are about 70 killings with guns in the UK each year.

In LA 54 people were killed by the police last year and there were 600 homicides.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/10/local/la-me-cop-shootings-20120610
There are about 12000 gun related homicides in the US each year.

Moving in any way towards the American model doesn't make much sense to me.
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When I posted this I thought it would provoke some fairly polarised opinions, however I'm not sure anyone in favour of arming the police is in favour of remotely moving towards the Amercian 'model' - a large contributor to the difference in those stats is "the right to bear arms", and the access almost any American citizen has to serious weaponry. The situation is fundamentally different in this country... It can be easy for some to get weapons, but for most it is beyond them, and it is most definitely illegal in the majority of circumstances.
 
Okay, you have me bang to rights. I was being rhetorical, highlighting the context. I think I also show the dangers to the public of a default armed response. As I have never visited the states I don't really know if it is the case, but I have the impression that American police are scared of their public, and the public are scared of them. The Old Bill are not frightening but I think they would be if they were equipped to kill. I prefer my bobby kinda cuddly, don't you?
 
Bing said:
Finisterre said:
I am not sure about our American contributor's perspective.

30 police were killed by guns in the UK in the last forty years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty
There are about 70 killings with guns in the UK each year.

In LA 54 people were killed by the police last year and there were 600 homicides.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/10/local/la-me-cop-shootings-20120610
There are about 12000 gun related homicides in the US each year.

Moving in any way towards the American model doesn't make much sense to me.
Click to expand...

When I posted this I thought it would provoke some fairly polarised opinions, however I'm not sure anyone in favour of arming the police is in favour of remotely moving towards the Amercian 'model' - a large contributor to the difference in those stats is "the right to bear arms", and the access almost any American citizen has to serious weaponry. The situation is fundamentally different in this country... It can be easy for some to get weapons, but for most it is beyond them, and it is most definitely illegal in the majority of circumstances.
Click to expand...

I would never force nor even advocate that any other country should adopt the American model. Brittan should be Brittan. But it surely looks to be the other way round. I.E. The united nations is trying very hard to establish a world gun ban. (well at least for the average citizen. governments, despots and dictators would be exempt or not follow the rules) and it is specifically aimed at the USA.
All one has to do is look at the documents and letters of our founding fathers who were English. Funny how no one here took note of the statement by Sarah Brady to the senator. who openly advocated lying and distorting the truth to advance their agenda. They want to change the USA from a Representative Republic to a socialist state. The American people do not want that. The first thing they have to do to force it upon us is get rid of the citizens right to bare arms thus preemptively stopping any opposition. And while 12,000 is far to many gun deaths. Over 40,000 die in cars every year. So why do we need a car like the Zed that can do 155MPH when the interstate motorway limit is 75MPH. Think of how many lives we could save by limiting a cars top speed to 75MPH. Yes! The freedom to own guns or fast cars does carry a high price when bad people get hold of them. But I fear an out of control government far more than I fear my neighbor. Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler. If the average citizen had a gun. Maybe, Just maybe. They could have stopped or at least slowed down those guys. Who collectively by the way are responsible for 30,000,000 or more deaths. Remember the old saying. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. If a government has no fear of it's people to keep it in check. It will always take more and more from it's people.
 
Stuart Truman said:
bigdog said:
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. But rest assured. If you are standing anywhere near me and someone attacks you with a cricket bat or pulls a gun on you. Would you want me to stop him by pulling my pistol or have me call the police? Of course you really wouldn't have to ask. I would willingly come to your rescue.
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Someone did pull a baseball bat on me. Doing that to a taekwondo instructor was the last dumb thing he did for a week or so. He spent the rest of the week in hospital. (I only kicked him once :? )Thankfully I had witnesses that showed I was attacked and the boys in blue left it at that.
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Firstly. Glad you weren't hurt.

There's been controversy in the past in the US concerning martial arts. Some who are not into the arts or don't understand it. Only see martial arts as a way for a person to learn to kill someone. Some in the US advocated that a person trained in the martial arts be registered with the police as a dangerous weapon. But a lot of people had a genuine fear that the streets would look like a scene out of "enter the dragon". You and I know better. But look at what you said. You would have been in trouble for defending your self had their been no witnesses. Only in our modern world would it be required to let an attacker get in a few licks to prove you were defending your life.

Gun violence took a sharp rise in the late 60's. Yet there were a lot of guns prior to that time. Guns didn't somehow become more evil. I think it was a fundamental shift in the way we thought of our lot in life. We started working more and more to include for the fist time, Both parents being gone. Which left our children to their own devices (mostly TV). We started down the path of every child in sports was a winner (after all we mustn't burden them with loosing). Any discipline was seen as abuse. And when the sudden reality that they don't always get what they want rears it's ugly head. They lash out violently or seek attention from other sources. Such as hooligan groups or out and out criminal gangs. Here is a snippet from wikipedia. People with a criminal record are also more likely to die as homicide victims. Between 1990 and 1994, 75% of all homicide victims age 21 and younger in the city of Boston had a prior criminal record. In Philadelphia, the percentage of those killed in gun homicides that had prior criminal records increased from 73% in 1985 to 93% in 1996.

And something else that this shows is that in Most major cities in the US. Guns are already banned. But they still seem to have them. Therefore banning law abiding people from owning guns will do what?

Under 21 on the streets and already having a criminal record and killing each other. Where were the parents? That is the problem. The parents were no where to be found or just don't care. And of course they (the parents) will say that it's not their fault. The government should do some thing. I say start acting like a responsible parents.
 
Supposedly you're supposed to warn people here. F*ck that if someone pulls a weapon on you. If someone is just pushing you about it's easy enough to talk your way out of it, unless they're hammered or off their head on something. Better to stay :ninja: about it and give them a the good news as a last resort. My instructor always told me, if there's trouble to the left, exit to the right :)
 
Stuart Truman said:
Supposedly you're supposed to warn people here. F*ck that if someone pulls a weapon on you. If someone is just pushing you about it's easy enough to talk your way out of it, unless they're hammered or off their head on something. Better to stay :ninja: about it and give them a the good news as a last resort. My instructor always told me, if there's trouble to the left, exit to the right :)
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Well there you go. The simple and hopefully rare act of defending one's own life is reduced by the near do wells in government to a checklist and series of health and safety announcements to the party which is trying to attack you. My martial arts instructor said the same. Always try your best to find a way out. If you are cornered. Kick some ass!
 
I think making Nosa prime minister is the most sensible suggestion on this thread :)


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Adamski said:
I think making Nosa prime minister is the most sensible suggestion on this thread :)


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It has been said before - at the very least I can see him in the Scottish Parliament giving Alex Salmond a good hard slap and going on to give an impassioned, carefully expletive-laced but rousing speech about how his government will find all the lazy feckers and force them to fix the roads, clean up the graffiti and give something back to a society that has acted like their mother's lactating t*t for long enough :D

Can I be Culture Secretary ?
 
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