ARGH!! 3.0i E85 Wont start - doesn't even turn?

[sk93]

Hi,

I've gone to start my car this morn and it just isn't having it.
It was working perfectly when I parked up Thursday night, but now it wont event turn over.

Initially I thought I'd somehow drained the battery, but I've just tried jumpstarting it from a friends car, and it's still not playing ball.

So, here's what I know:

Headlights. seats, roof, stereo, amp, everything electric I can test still works fine on the car and is showing no signs of a dead battery.
Battery life indicator is still showing green.
Connecting a charger to the battery shows it pretty much fully charged.

When I put the key in and turn it to position 2, all the dash lights come on as normal, and you can hear two relays clicking on in the engine bay.
When I then try and start the car, you can sometimes hear a relay click in the engine bay, right up against the bulkhead, somewhere near the brake servo it seems.

But there's nothing else. The car's not even attempting to turn.


The only thing I can think of is that it was very wet on Thursday night and I did go through a couple of deeper puddles (nothing you shouldn't be able to go through tho!).

Please please please tell me there's something nice and simple I can check or reset and it may just come back to life...
I've just had to fork out nearly two grand on her this month for a new clutch, flywheel, exhaust and terracleaning - I don't want to have to spend another bajillion dollars on replacing a starter motor (or worse!)

 

[sk93]

Also worth noting, nothing is "dimming" when turning the key... this is so going to be starter motor isn't it

I tried an old wives tail technique of sticking it in reverse then hand rocking the car back and forth in attempt to free a "stuck" starter.. Suffice to say, this helped not.

 

[fixit man]

from what you're saying it does sound like the starter, have you tried a "technical Knock" on the Starter solenoid when trying to start !

 

[Rusky]

Not very mechanically minded and dont mean this in any sarchastic way before anybody complains. :roll: Can you try hitting the starter motor to try and free it?? Not that i really know where the starter motor is :? .

Not really much help am i :| Sorry just call it moral support :wink: Hope you fix it

 

[sk93]

I've not tried the tradesman's hammer approach, no.
I will try it in a couple hours when I get back home again, so thanks for that.

Hoping others will chime in with other things to try as well, so I have a whole list of things to try before crying my way to eurocarparts.. again

 

[BMWZ4MC]

As above - hit it! As a student I had a car with a duff starter motor that required a little percussive persuasion from time to time. I used to use the same piece of four-by-two that I kept to prop the boot open as the strut had failed....I don't miss that car!

 

[sk93]

Percussive maintenance is something I've done a lot in my past.. I once had a 300zx that would only ever start after being hit with half a broomstick, even after changing starter motors twice.. really don't know why I didn't think of that

Are there any specific fuses / relays to check / replace?
I checked the two 40amp starter signal fuses behind the glove box, and I could hear two relays clicking in the plastic box in the engine bay.. but I will admit to not knowing which relay is which, nor if there are any other specific fuses to try...?

 

[mr wilks]

Have you tried a push /bump start ?

 

[sk93]

Have you tried a push /bump start ?

Nope. there's no way the missus will push it, and with just my friend and I, we'd not get it up to a decent enough speed to try :/

 

[mr wilks]

Have you tried a push /bump start ?

Nope. there's no way the missus will push it, and with just my friend and I, we'd not get it up to a decent enough speed to try :/

Sometimes the smallest nudge can move a starter ?

 

[Jembo]

That old rocking reverse wives tale has sorted three people in my lifetime, though looks like you're left at being dragged by someone to bump start.

All the best, this weather's pants

 

[andysat]

Trying to think which car from my past had to be rocked from time to time :roll:

 

[Grumpyowl]

Have you tried a push /bump start ?

Nope. there's no way the missus will push it, and with just my friend and I, we'd not get it up to a decent enough speed to try :/

Can he tow you up to speed for a jump start ?

 

[Stuart Truman]

Check the earth lead from the starter motor through to the body, and both battery connections.

If one of them has worked slightly loose you can get the symptom of a click and nothing else where everything else seems normal.

 

[sk93]

ok.. update.

I gave the start a love tap, and it attempted to turn over once, but it was very,very weak. :/
After that first time, it then tried to turn again on the second time, but it made a sound that I can only describe as escaping water (sort of the same when you squeeze a water pipe) and didn't turn the engine at all.
From that point it didn't do anything else productive - back to the same old not turning over.


I'm guessing I need to replace the starter.
I would have whipped it out this evening, but I didn't realise that it was in such an awkward position to get at, and with next to no light available (it's on the drive, had to steal a desk lamp to see!) I couldn't figure out what I was doing.


Can someone give me a quick "how to" on removal? (what size bolts, how many, locations, and how to remove the wiring harness(es)).
Doesn't need to be detailed, but just enough for someone with little light to achieve?

 

[Anonymous]

.

 

[sk93]

Thanks, but I want to replace myself.. especially as EuroCrapParts sell the starters for about £70-£100 smackeroons.. and it shouldn't be that hard to do.. right?

 

[sk93]

ok.. got most of the way, but need to find a smaller socket than I currently have.

To remove, there's two long bolts (size: 10mm) in the gearbox housing.
There's also a 13mm bolt holding the +12v cable, a 10mm bolt holding a ground? and what I think is a 8mm bolt holding the switch wire.

remove the switch wires first, then remove the two housing bolts.
the unit will then slide out.

TIS recommends taking the airbox off, but I didn't find that was necessary, even in next to no light.


QUESTION:
Once I get it out, I guess I can just hook it up to the battery and see if it spins fine?

 

[sk93]

ok. can confirm it's an 8mm bolt... so sockets needed are 10mm, 13mm and 8mm.

Got the motor out and hooked it up to the battery to test fire it.
thing doesn't spin at all.. solenoid clicks like a mofo and you can see the motor attempt to move, but its not spinning :/


had a quick ganders on fleaBay and got a remanufactured one with next day delivery for £30..
Not perfect, but if it gets me going again and lasts until the end of the month, that'll do me.

total amount spend in the last two months on just maintaining "Winston"? £3249... :thumbsdown:

still love him tho.

fingers crossed and he'll be running again sometime tuesday - I'll reply when the part turns up (or sooner if someone else replies lol)

 

[fixit man]

well done, at least you've confirmed what the fault is and you're half way through the job