Are sports cars dying out?

[the cueball]

I guess it comes down to personal choice and when the car will be getting used the most.

I would love a lightweight RWD car for hooning around a track every weekend... that's just not going to happen.

what I also find is that people who buy 'sport cars' usually are just doing it to show off, they are not actually that bothered about driving it.

Even when the road and conditions allow, it's getting harder and harder to have fun out on public roads due to many factors.

for my sins, I like big V8 saloons... may not be 'sports' enough for some purists, but they float me in 100% comfort in all conditions! and both are sub 5 seconds to 60 and do well over 150mph... with 4 people, luggage and a dog if needed...

if I really want hardcore speed and danger, I'll take my bike out.... I think I have the set up for the best of both worlds...

 

[sars]

That's why I say a modern sports car is mostly down to EGO and aesthetics, They aren't about the driving experience anymore.

What a load of tosh, so the new Caymen, pretty much lauded by the motoring press as the finest drivers car available today is, in your opinion, not not about the driving experience.

The sports car market has never been stronger or as diverse than it is now, you can a have pretty much anything from a street legal single seat racing car (BAC Mono) to a very usable every day hyper car in the 918.

 

[Merrsh1]

That's why I say a modern sports car is mostly down to EGO and aesthetics, They aren't about the driving experience anymore.

What a load of tosh, so the new Caymen, pretty much lauded by the motoring press as the finest drivers car available today is, in your opinion, not not about the driving experience.

The sports car market has never been stronger or as diverse than it is now, you can a have pretty much anything from a street legal single seat racing car (BAC Mono) to a very usable every day hyper car in the 918.

He's got a point. The median 'sports car' isn't what any petrol head would class as a sports car. The new caymen is no doubt brilliant but as involving to drive as say an e type? I very much doubt it.

 

[paulgs1000]

It's all subjective - what is a great drive to one will be a harsh and wilful beast to another.

That driving 'experience' is what makes some people buy the car - it may be it's looks for others. (sometimes you can get lucky with both)

I'm with sars - there is a wide variety of choices out there.

I think I also know why the E85/86 BMW is so popular with drivers!

 

[exdos]

The new caymen is no doubt brilliant but as involving to drive as say an e type? I very much doubt it.

Remember "old school" sports cars were shod with either cross-ply tyres or the relatively newly introduced radials: thess tyres lacked the grip that current tyres have. You could get absolutely any car to slide, irrespective of the power (i.e. Morris Minor etc.), on cross-plys, so sports cars obviously required more skill and were more fun to drive (and dangerous). From my reading of this forum, most posters slate any tyre that doesn't have high levels of grip, but the driving fun and skill is all about controlling a car at the limits of grip. So, IMHO, improving the tyres just pushes the limits of all cars further and so "sports" cars have become integrated into the normal affordable car configurations.

 

[sars]

This is a good point exdos, we are basically choosing at what relative speed our car will hopefully start to under steer, those with an eye on the past just want to do it slower, no bad thing mind hence the GT86

For my driving talents though I want sure footedness, acceleration and predictable handling with systems in place that if I do chicken out and lift off mid corner I don't wake up in an air ambulance.

I've had a few classic sports cars and they were for a time when I was young and my thoughts were as an immortal.

 

[Ewazix]

IMHO the Colin Chapman's 1962 Lotus Elan set the benchmark for modern road sports cars, his philosophy was simple, shed weight and sort the suspension then everything else follows, It influenced cars like Alfa Spider through to the MX5 which was an acknowledged copy. Even now the original is a great drive, many others have made the format more usable and comfortable (and reliable ) but probably only Lotus has kept to the original principles with the likes of the Elise.

 

[Merrsh1]

The new caymen is no doubt brilliant but as involving to drive as say an e type? I very much doubt it.

Remember "old school" sports cars were shod with either cross-ply tyres or the relatively newly introduced radials: thess tyres lacked the grip that current tyres have. You could get absolutely any car to slide, irrespective of the power (i.e. Morris Minor etc.), on cross-plys, so sports cars obviously required more skill and were more fun to drive (and dangerous). From my reading of this forum, most posters slate any tyre that doesn't have high levels of grip, but the driving fun and skill is all about controlling a car at the limits of grip. So, IMHO, improving the tyres just pushes the limits of all cars further and so "sports" cars have become integrated into the normal affordable car configurations.

Good point. I suppose it could be said better tyres started the slide to driver aids and traction control... The need for safety sanitizes the experience really.

It'll be sad the day when you just get to sit there and the car drives you but it's certainly coming.

 

[bigdog]

That's why I say a modern sports car is mostly down to EGO and aesthetics, They aren't about the driving experience anymore.

What a load of tosh, so the new Caymen, pretty much lauded by the motoring press as the finest drivers car available today is, in your opinion, not not about the driving experience.

The sports car market has never been stronger or as diverse than it is now, you can a have pretty much anything from a street legal single seat racing car (BAC Mono) to a very usable every day hyper car in the 918.

The Cayman is a nice car. But then there is the fact that not all of us are professionals of your stature and can just go write a check for $81,000 USD. BAC Mono? $152,000 USD, 918 Only $845,000 USD Gee I'd better get that cookie jar from the kitchen. There is very little beyond the MX-5 and Lotus Elise (at least in America) where one can reasonably AFFORD to have a new basic sports car and a family barge. We as customers have mandated that our "sports cars" be so luxurious, So electronically connected (so as to prevent us from making a mistake) that they have become a very expensive status symbol more than a fun to drive toy. Most will never push their high cost sports car anywhere near it's limit on the street. Main point. We have pushed the affordable basic two seat open top sports car to the status of the Dinosaurs. Extinct. Or nearly so.

 

[-Tom-]

The new caymen is no doubt brilliant but as involving to drive as say an e type? I very much doubt it.

Remember "old school" sports cars were shod with either cross-ply tyres or the relatively newly introduced radials: thess tyres lacked the grip that current tyres have. You could get absolutely any car to slide, irrespective of the power (i.e. Morris Minor etc.), on cross-plys, so sports cars obviously required more skill and were more fun to drive (and dangerous). From my reading of this forum, most posters slate any tyre that doesn't have high levels of grip, but the driving fun and skill is all about controlling a car at the limits of grip. So, IMHO, improving the tyres just pushes the limits of all cars further and so "sports" cars have become integrated into the normal affordable car configurations.

I was thinking about the tyre situation this morning funnily enough. New boots were fitted on Christmas eve and the back end was so much more planted today even in the damp cold - good results technically but it didn't make me smile half as much.

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[sars]

The post title was not "are affordable sports cars dying out" though was it bigdog,

 

[Adamski]

Bit late to throw in my two penneth. Not read through all the posts so this might be repeating something already posted.

Cars keep getting quicker, faster and more advanced. Speed limits stay the same.

You can wring the neck of a smaller engined, older sports car. It'll be a rewarding experience, and you'll not be so far over the speed limit that you endanger your drivers licence.

With a modern sports car - big engines with gizmos - wringing the car's neck can be rewarding. However extracting maximum performance exponentially increases the likelihood of a lost licence and driving conviction or accident. Therefore the potential reward for the additional investment is diminishing.

All this comes from the person who sold his 3.0i zed in search for something faster. So all sensible chat about the dangers of losing your licence has been ignored in my case


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[ronk]

For years, motoring enthusiasts have tried to make their car faster, handle better, have better brakes etc why complain when they come like that from the factory! You only need to do a search on this forum to read 3.0 v 2.0 and BMW Z4 v Porsche Boxter to see that its still alive and well!

One thing is for certain, there is no need to carry a huge toolbox a set of overalls and a drip tray under the car in the garage!

 

[bigdog]

The post title was not "are affordable sports cars dying out" though was it bigdog,

I'll acquiesce, All sports cars should cost at least 60,000 quid hopefully more.

You are however correct, This post wasn't specifically about affordable sports cars dying out. As the demise of affordable sports cars has pretty much already taken place. With the exception of the MX-5 and Elise. And It does bother me, As there is a current and future generation of driver that has or will miss out on the pleasure of driving a small, light, fun open top sports car. Simply because there are far to many folks lined up behind the big price tag, electronically micromanaged, Made of luxurious unobtainium= a sports car type of thinking. It's a shame that the only one's who can drive a new sports car any more are folks with bags of money. Those folks with out said bag of money have to buy the 10-15 year old sports cars. You know. The ones with all the electronic safety gizmos that you admire and that are failing and are impossible to fix and must be replaced. That is if those gizmos are even being made or supported any more. Of course those gizmos are dirt cheap aren't they. Hell, I can't even get a factory map data update disc from BMW for my wife's 2008 3 series satnav.

It just think it would nice to have the option to not spend so much to buy a new sports car.

 

[ronk]

It just think it would nice to have the option to not spend so much to buy a new sports car.

The option of a kit car will always exist and will also give them knowledge of what makes a car tick!

Westfield still supply a kit of parts for self build and then you have a reasonably priced sports car with no driver aids whatsoever.

 

[exdos]

It just think it would nice to have the option to not spend so much to buy a new sports car.

The hot-hatches are the replacements for small lightweight sports cars. I have a Citroen C2 VTS (2006) as a runabout on my local twisties: it weighs 1050kgs with a high-revving 1.6 engine, 125bhp and does 0 - 60mph in 8secs. Obviously, it's no world-beater but it's great fun to drive because it's performance and gearing is more compatible with road use and therefore is more involving to drive than a more competent car without having to drive at silly speeds. It's worth very little and is cheap to insure and I wouldn't be without something like this.

 

[Sae]

Great thread to while away the post turkey digestion period

Lots of good views, but in answer to the original post, IMO I'd say no, we are going to continue to get a wider choice of sports cars over the years, even more if you factor in the older cars which will now be more affordable.

The only thing now is you need to be a multimillionaire to get into the good stuff as in the
'hyper' cars such as the fezza F12...

Anyone for mince pie

 

[Sae]

Btw when I say good stuff I obviously mean crazy stuff!

 

[bigdog]

It just think it would nice to have the option to not spend so much to buy a new sports car.

The option of a kit car will always exist and will also give them knowledge of what makes a car tick!

Westfield still supply a kit of parts for self build and then you have a reasonably priced sports car with no driver aids whatsoever.

To go back to the OP's question. While high dollar, High tech cars are not dying out. They are becoming more and more specialized, niche, and expensive and are for the well to do. The classic idea of a sports car among the less than well to do is almost extinct. Hot hatches are a great way to have fun on the cheap. But I wouldn't call them a sports car.

Ronk,
It's not that easy in the USA nor here in Germany. Even the almost fully built Caterham from Rocky Mountain sports cars can be a bit dodgy to get registered or insure depending on the state in which one lives. Lot's of them are registered as something they aren't. I had to buy a seven that was at least 25 years old upon importation in order to not have it confiscated or deported.

I think that "new" sports cars have become a well to do persons game as of late. Because of the buyers quest for higher HP and top speed numbers (one must have huge top trump numbers to show off to ones mates), endless government mandates, And Nannies to help the unskilled drive their sports car. Thus adding cost, weight, complexity to make sure the unskilled don't hurt themselves. So while electronic nannies does make a sports car available to a theoretically wider audience, The initial and future maintenance and insurance costs will then limit the same car to only the well to do less than stellar driver.

I used to ride sport bikes, I do not ride bikes any more because my right wrist was out pacing my reactions and abilities. Plus I broke both hands and my left knee in a dirt bike accident when I was 50 yrs old. That hurt and I'm still feeling the effects of it. It never entered my mind that maybe I should demand that all bike makers redesign their sport and dirt bikes to match my waning abilities. As doing such would be a kill joy to those with talent and add unnecessary cost and weight. Instead I switched to the Zed, I found the Zed a bit sterile as it needed huge speed to feel exciting. So I bought the Caterham. When my body tells me to or I start scaring myself, I will sell the Caterham and move from sports cars all together. I will not go to Caterham or the government and demand that an automatic transmission, airbags, ABS, Stability control, Traction control, cruise control be added because I suck at driving and the Caterham needs be made sucky driver proof.

Good fun though reading everyone's opinion. Especially on this grey rainy day in Deutschland.

 

[Shorty]

Everyone has their own idea of a sports car. For me (being an old bloke) the most exciting sports car I ever had was the Austin Healey 3000. That car was fast in its day, it was also hard to keep on the road when driven hard, most of all it was fun, an instant pulse rate raiser. I have an M roadster now. For me this is the nearest I can get to the old Healey 3000. As with the Healey its fast, driven hard its not that easy to keep on the road and it raises the pulse rate. Most important as with the Healey, it has character.
If you want a fast car that does everything very well, including understeer! but with no personality get a Porsche.
I say a true sports car has a powerful 6 cylinder engine in the front and rear wheel drive. That's a Z. That's why I bought mine and it's why I love it!!