Appreciating classic....???

[Darren M]

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that the people buying these cars are the same people who would chop in a big engined car for an economical option. once you're past the cost of buying one, servicing, maintenance, tax and insurance I'm pretty sure fuel cost becomes almost negligible in its effect on the buying decision.

Yes and no - it's psychological. Some hear of rising fuel prices and will buy an eco drive without actually doing the sums. Just like others will justify a fuel guzzler again when they hear fuel prices are back to 2009 levels. I remember when I drove my Z4 M daily (2009 to 2012),people I met who had an interest of some sort in cars would usually ask first "how many MPG does it do", rather than performance specs. At the moment people seem to care less about the MPG.
I doubt it's had a big impact on prices however and more probably buying now as second cars rather than daily drivers

 

[Angelus666]

I guess my point was that when/if the petrol price panic sets in, it forces the wider market down. The Z4M won't be immune to this, it will affect the value perception of these when you can buy newer/better performance cars for not a great deal more.

Do we think these cars will be worth more than a similar mileage 2007 997 C2S in the next couple of years? As that car comes down will they pass each other in the value stakes?

 

[Bing]

Ah, but you're driving it, not them, and that's why they're not

The thing is this isn't a guzzler as such, it's a completely impractical two seats sports car with a stupidly powerful engine in it (for a 'mainstream' car), that still costs quite a bit to buy and definitely costs a lot to maintain. There are so many things to get past that are bigger buying blocks than fuel, and I fear those asking first about MPG are looking for a reason not to want one... Though it strikes me that I may sound like a bit of a cock saying that :lol:

(EDIT - comment in response to Darren's post )

 

[RickRob]

I agree with Bing. Few people do more than 10k miles per year in their Zeds - very little difference in overall cash spent per year whether you do 22 or 30 mpg.

Indeed,I'm suspect that the low/zero depreciation more than offsets mpg figures.

My previous car was an X Type 2.5L AWD and that only did 2 to 3 more mpg than the Zed and depreciated a lot.

 

[buzyg]

I guess my point was that when/if the petrol price panic sets in, it forces the wider market down. The Z4M won't be immune to this, it will affect the value perception of these when you can buy newer/better performance cars for not a great deal more.

Do we think these cars will be worth more than a similar mileage 2007 997 C2S in the next couple of years? As that car comes down will they pass each other in the value stakes?

Well, for the same money, I for one would prefer a Z4MR to a 997C2S Cab. If I was after a Coupe though, the situation would revers. After all the 911 was designed to be a coupe in the first place and it's rather good at it.

 

[Bing]

I agree with Bing. Few people do more than 10k miles per year in their Zeds - very little difference in overall cash spent per year whether you do 22 or 30 mpg.

Indeed,I'm suspect that the low/zero depreciation more than offsets mpg figures.

My previous car was an X Type 2.5L AWD and that only did 2 to 3 more mpg than the Zed and depreciated a lot.

...though I have done 13k so far in almost 11 months, so will be at 14k by the time I reach a year of ownership. Mine is a depreciating classic right now

At least half my mileage is for work, and all of that fuel is funded by expenses. It's possible my view would be different if it wasn't, but a) servicing & other costs would be more of a concern first (private car mileage rate helps fund those), and b) I swallow the cost of the other half without even thinking about it. Honestly. It's too much fun to worry - that would just kill it for me personally. Hence my view of 'people who buy these cars' :idunno:

 

[original guvnor]

Can't speak for others but I couldn't give a toss about fuel costs in relation to my M. I do 2-3k a year and I reckon a lot of others will be similar if this forum is representative of the owner base.

It would take a serious hike in road tax and fuel for those two variables to affect values now. There's enough interest in the car as a curio to override any of that.

 

[buzyg]

Can't speak for others but I couldn't give a toss about fuel costs in relation to my M. I do 2-3k a year and I reckon a lot of others will be similar if this forum is representative of the owner base.

It would take a serious hike in road tax and fuel for those two variables to affect values now. There's enough interest in the car as a curio to override any of that.

100% agree with this.

 

[Z4M-2006]

I put about £25 a week in the M...

It would have to up a lot to make any discernable difference

 

[ChrisC85]

Can't speak for others but I couldn't give a toss about fuel costs in relation to my M. I do 2-3k a year and I reckon a lot of others will be similar if this forum is representative of the owner base.

It would take a serious hike in road tax and fuel for those two variables to affect values now. There's enough interest in the car as a curio to override any of that.

Exactly. I didn't buy the Mc with economy in mind. I have my vw caddy for that.

 

[Jasey]

It will only appreciate if you dont use it.

I'd rather use it

If you want an investment buy shares in JClarkson plc

 

[Angelus666]

Slightly on topic, but looking across the market I don't think the Z4M is out performing other limited run/interesting stuff...everything is flying up! Last year I was trying to get into a GT3 at just above the £100k mark....now they're £180k...which I think is ridiculous. This feels a lot like a bubble that is about to burst...

 

[StevenH72]

Slightly on topic, but looking across the market I don't think the Z4M is out performing other limited run/interesting stuff...everything is flying up! Last year I was trying to get into a GT3 at just above the £100k mark....now they're £180k...which I think is ridiculous. This feels a lot like a bubble that is about to burst...

Some price rises are ridiculous, the E30 M3 has rocketed in value over the past 5 years. However, the fact right now is that credit is incredibly affordable. I'm constantly receiving offers for loans up to £15k for 3.7% APR, with interest rates remaining low I'm not so sure that the 'bubble' (also not sure that the Z4M prices can be called a bubble just yet) will burst. It's looking increasingly likely that interest rates won't start to rise until early 2016...could have another year of prices increasing.

 

[ncrossy1980]

I'm expecting the interest rates to go up any time now. The Bank of England have been looking for a reason to do it, they haven't budged in years, but now that the oil price has bottomed out and in turn petrol has shot down, that's a good a reason as any to increase the rate... but I'm no financial analyst, just my observations.

 

[original guvnor]

I don't think there will be any interest rate rises yet because we could be heading for deflation.

 

[plowy]

The Porsche bubble will pop surely,,,,good friend bought a very nice Mk1 GT3 2.5 years ago fir 29500,,,he's convinced it will top 100k in years to come.....I'd cash it in now...LOL....!!

 

[mad4slalom]

Don't buy cars as assets - it rarely works out.

Although I suspect the depreciation curve on the M is at worst flat

rarely, unless you bought a db5 twenty years ago

 

[Darren M]

Slightly on topic, but looking across the market I don't think the Z4M is out performing other limited run/interesting stuff...everything is flying up! Last year I was trying to get into a GT3 at just above the £100k mark....now they're £180k...which I think is ridiculous. This feels a lot like a bubble that is about to burst...

Some price rises are ridiculous, the E30 M3 has rocketed in value over the past 5 years. However, the fact right now is that credit is incredibly affordable. I'm constantly receiving offers for loans up to £15k for 3.7% APR, with interest rates remaining low I'm not so sure that the 'bubble' (also not sure that the Z4M prices can be called a bubble just yet) will burst. It's looking increasingly likely that interest rates won't start to rise until early 2016...could have another year of prices increasing.

Regarding E30 M3's, I enjoyed owning two of them but IMO no way worth their current prices other than special cases (ie, an evo2/ sport dry stored in italy ). A lot are hiding some serious rust issues and will need complete restoration at some point. Replacing the bonded windscreen (if it got chipped) easily damaged the frame and can rust and let water into the cabin. The windscreen drain holes were rubbish too and could easily cause a build up of water causing a rusty scuttle(but well hidden) and then the water could drip down and rust out the bulkhead too - not good. QUite a few parts are becoming NLA so could be a real PITA to keep in a great condition.

Journalists often compare to the E30 M3 but I do wonder sometimes if some of them have actually driven one. Like today's M3's the road cars did lack in the braking department, uprated springs/dampers were required for serious track work, and the steering was over assisted which affected steering feel. The overall handling was sublime however.

 

[mad4slalom]

The Porsche bubble will pop surely,,,,good friend bought a very nice Mk1 GT3 2.5 years ago fir 29500,,,he's convinced it will top 100k in years to come.....I'd cash it in now...LOL....!!

not so sure, try and find a 95 ish 993 turbo

 

[plowy]

The Porsche bubble will pop surely,,,,good friend bought a very nice Mk1 GT3 2.5 years ago fir 29500,,,he's convinced it will top 100k in years to come.....I'd cash it in now...LOL....!!

not so sure, try and find a 95 ish 993 turbo

Your talking different spectrums...the aircooled cars are in a different league ,,,not a comparison IMO