Anyone regularly do trackdays with their 35i/s?

D

DaveP

Member
 Norfolk/London
Context is that I'm looking for something with a bit more power than my 3.0i, and I'm keen on DCT because I've failed to adequately learn how to heel-toe in 25 years of driving.

Gut feel for me is that they are on the cusp of being too heavy (1600kg is going to make it heavy on consumables), and that it would probably need a few upgrades (LSD, bigger brakes) to run longer sessions on track.

I'd probably want to at least look at a remap, which I suspect would necessitate a bigger intercooler at minimum. How does the DCT handle longer track sessions from a heat PoV? Does it have an external oil cooler?

Thanks!
 
I would think it wouldn’t make a great track car..way to much weight especially over and in front of the front axle..

A chap in China has regularly raced his..

He managed quite well on the stock brakes albeit with different pads etc..

I think the DCT would be fine..it’s massively over engineered…plus it has an external cooler
 
B21 said:
I would think it wouldn’t make a great track car..way to much weight especially over and in front of the front axle..

A chap in China has regularly raced his..

He managed quite well on the stock brakes albeit with different pads etc..
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So it weighs about the same as the F87 M2 and E92 M3, which are my benchmarks for how heavy a usable car can be on track. But, like them, in full road trim it would be heavy on brakes and tyres if you were doing hardcore trackday sessions. Thankfully I'm more of a 'midcore' guy.

Do both the 35i and is have external DCT oil coolers?

I actually found that thread from the chap in China, and read through it with interest. He's gone way past where I'd need to be to enjoy the car on track, but a good read nonetheless.
 
I think its less about the overall weight and more about weight distribution as highlighted above. Something that is front heavy is always going to present its own problems on track from brake over heating to balance into a corner.

If you are looking at 35is money and want to have a car you can still use on the road and on track I would have thought a 987.2 Cayman would be a much better bet straight out the box with the PDK.
 
coldel said:
I think its less about the overall weight and more about weight distribution as highlighted above. Something that is front heavy is always going to present its own problems on track from brake over heating to balance into a corner.

If you are looking at 35is money and want to have a car you can still use on the road and on track I would have thought a 987.2 Cayman would be a much better bet straight out the box.
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The weight distribution doesn't seem to be a big problem. BMW sales bumph has it as 49/51 for the 35i/s, which is as close as my driving talents would ever need it to be.

Whatever I buy next, I'd ideally like a 300bhp+ convertible with a double-clutch auto. With a budget of about £20k, my options seem to be:
- TTRS Convertible, with a couple of grand left over for tweaking
- Z4 35i/s, with a few grand to make it a bit more track-friendly
- Boxster 987.2S, with enough money left over for better brakes and tyres

The Z4 is the heaviest of the lot, but the closest to what I'd actually want. Ideally I'd like something with lots of torque, and I have a slight preference for front-engined, RWD cars.

The Boxster is the thinking man's choice, but I've driven a 987.2S Cayman on track and they aren't super-impressive in a straight line. I realise that's not all it's about, but it's definitely a factor for me.

I've never driven a TTRS, but the engine is very charismatic and they seem to be very capable without being the last word in excitement.

Part of me really wants the Z4 to be the answer. I like BMWs, and I liked the short test drive I had in a 35is. But I have absolutely no idea how it would go on track, hence the question.
 
I know a few guys that have owned the TTRS and thrown a map at it, and it easily out drags an R35 GTR which is no mean feat.
No idea what it would be like dynamically on the track, no worse than the Z4 I would think at a guess.

Last track day I did was in my VX220 Turbo...now that was a lot of fun even when I bottled it on a long right and suffered a lift off oversteer and went sideways infield. Not really a day to day car though :rofl:
 
There was a chap in the UK who tracked a re-mapped 20i with some success..

As discussed with about 100kg over / past the front wheels compared to the N20 the turn in / head nodding on the 35 is very noticeable..

It can be tamed in part with better quality tie rods/ steering linkages/ARB etc etc

AFAIK in the UK 35i and 35is have identical h/w throughout
 
coldel said:
I know a few guys that have owned the TTRS and thrown a map at it, and it easily out drags an R35 GTR which is no mean feat.
No idea what it would be like dynamically on the track, no worse than the Z4 I would think at a guess.

Last track day I did was in my VX220 Turbo...now that was a lot of fun even when I bottled it on a long right and suffered a lift off oversteer and went sideways infield. Not really a day to day car though :rofl:
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Sadly anything more hardcore is out of the question for me for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I'm 6ft3 and 110kg, so anything MX5/Lotus/Caterham sized is out of the question. Secondly, I typically make a couple of trips a year out to the Ring, and I like my creature comforts too much to suffer on those long motorway drives.

This would be a third car that does about 3-4k a year, so it can be plenty compromised like my E85. It just can't be small or stripped out.
 
With Z4MRs available under 10k with negotiation might be worth consideration? Consumable cost is high but it runs on 18s as standard disks are expensive and do tend to warp ive had two sets warp one on my coupe one on my roady no track use from me either...

But quite a bit more powerful than the 3.0l and I think 1410kg depending on kit. Strip the electric seats put a lighter battery in it probably get rid of a considerable amount of weight and NA 343 to play with. No auto tho, although someone has put one in on here from an E92.
 
As you said with a similar weight to the E92 M3, I think the 35i/s would be pretty good on track with some standard track based mods. I think what would be needed to make an E89 good on track would be (in a sort of order of necessity IMO):
  • Tyres (goes without saying)
  • Coilovers with stiffer spring rates
  • Thicker ARBs
  • BBK with uprated pads and fluid
  • LSD (Quaife or MFactory will probably do)
  • Lightweight, wider track wheels (will probably needs these anyway for the BBK)
  • Poly bush various bushes / mounts

With all of that done, I think a mapped one could give an E92 M3 a good run for its money.
 
B21 said:
There was a chap in the UK who tracked a re-mapped 20i with some success..

As discussed with about 100kg over / past the front wheels compared to the N20 the turn in / head nodding on the 35 is very noticeable..

It can be tamed in part with better quality tie rods/ steering linkages/ARB etc etc

AFAIK in the UK 35i and 35is have identical h/w throughout
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I'd be doing coilovers at a minimum, which is why the is with adaptive suspension would be a bit wasted on me. But I'd also read a lot about swapping out various bits of E92 M3 suspension on the front end (as many of the M135/140 folks do), which may cure some of the maladies.
 
tomscott said:
With Z4MRs available under 10k with negotiation might be worth consideration? Consumable cost is high but it runs on 18s as standard disks are expensive and do tend to warp ive had two sets warp one on my coupe one on my roady no track use from me either...

But quite a bit more powerful than the 3.0l and I think 1410kg depending on kit. Strip the electric seats put a lighter battery in it probably get rid of a considerable amount of weight and NA 343 to play with. No auto tho, although someone has put one in on here from an E92.
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I like a Z4M, but it's not for me. It's quick, but would get walloped by something like an M2 or E92 on track. Having driven one, it's a lovely car but didn't feel like a huge step up from my track-modified 3.0i. It's also missing the key component of a double-clutch box, sadly.
 
TheDan said:
As you said with a similar weight to the E92 M3, I think the 35i/s would be pretty good on track with some standard track based mods. I think what would be needed to make an E89 good on track would be (in a sort of order of necessity IMO):
  • Tyres (goes without saying)
  • Coilovers with stiffer spring rates
  • Thicker ARBs
  • BBK with uprated pads and fluid
  • LSD (Quaife or MFactory will probably do)
  • Lightweight, wider track wheels (will probably needs these anyway for the BBK)
  • Poly bush various bushes / mounts

With all of that done, I think a mapped one could give an E92 M3 a good run for its money.
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That all sounds very much like you've done the same research as me, and describes broadly what I've done with my E85. On the LSD front, it looks like Quaife are the only game in town when it comes to the DCT 35i/s, unless someone can correct me?

I have a bit of a thing for OEM parts, so I'd probably scavenge brakes (F30 brembos) and wheels (E92 18s - not sure on offset?) from other BMW models if I could.

My problem is that this is feels like uncharted territory, and I'd be bloody annoyed if I did all that and still had a car that wasn't enjoyable on track. It would be nice to buy one that someone had done the majority to already, but modified E89s are thin on the ground.

Ultimately I'm trying to find a convertible that stops me from just going and buying an M2 or M3, which are mostly great out of the box on track. They just feel slightly boring next to a two-seat convertible, and I couldn't imagine taking either out on a sunny, summer evening for a leisurely punt.
 
DaveP said:
tomscott said:
With Z4MRs available under 10k with negotiation might be worth consideration? Consumable cost is high but it runs on 18s as standard disks are expensive and do tend to warp ive had two sets warp one on my coupe one on my roady no track use from me either...

But quite a bit more powerful than the 3.0l and I think 1410kg depending on kit. Strip the electric seats put a lighter battery in it probably get rid of a considerable amount of weight and NA 343 to play with. No auto tho, although someone has put one in on here from an E92.
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I like a Z4M, but it's not for me. It's quick, but would get walloped by something like an M2 or E92 on track. Having driven one, it's a lovely car but didn't feel like a huge step up from my track-modified 3.0i. It's also missing the key component of a double-clutch box, sadly.
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The E92 M3 was half a second slower than the Z4M on topgear hot laps.

Not scientific but was on top here too Z4M vs E90 and E92 M3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdy0XbmrXIQ

Sounds like an M2 or M3 is the answer then. Some leggier M2 and M3s are under 20k, suppose you would still need to fettle them for track so depends how you look at it.

My dad had a V8 just didnt get on with it, felt heavy, your so high up and feel disconnected. On the road the power is so high up that day to day it's just not fun and drinks fuel like no tomorrow. Also has its fair share of costly issues to sort before driving them hard.

Must be missing something but everyone raves about them. Much preferred the E46 like a go kart in comparison.
 
tomscott said:
DaveP said:
tomscott said:
With Z4MRs available under 10k with negotiation might be worth consideration? Consumable cost is high but it runs on 18s as standard disks are expensive and do tend to warp ive had two sets warp one on my coupe one on my roady no track use from me either...

But quite a bit more powerful than the 3.0l and I think 1410kg depending on kit. Strip the electric seats put a lighter battery in it probably get rid of a considerable amount of weight and NA 343 to play with. No auto tho, although someone has put one in on here from an E92.
Click to expand...
I like a Z4M, but it's not for me. It's quick, but would get walloped by something like an M2 or E92 on track. Having driven one, it's a lovely car but didn't feel like a huge step up from my track-modified 3.0i. It's also missing the key component of a double-clutch box, sadly.
Click to expand...

The E92 M3 was half a second slower than the Z4M on topgear hot laps.

Not scientific but was on top here too Z4M vs E90 and E92 M3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdy0XbmrXIQ

Sounds like an M2 or M3 is the answer then. Some leggier M2 and M3s are under 20k, suppose you would still need to fettle them for track so depends how you look at it.

My dad had a V8 just didnt get on with it, felt heavy, your so high up and feel disconnected. On the road the power is so high up that day to day it's just not fun and drinks fuel like no tomorrow. Also has its fair share of costly issues to sort before driving them hard.

Must be missing something but everyone raves about them. Much preferred the E46 like a go kart in comparison.
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I'm sure the Z4M is a great car, but all magazine tests had it significantly slower around tracks than the M2 or M3. As you point out, they don't feel as 'special' to sit in as a Z4, which is what's holding me back.

Either way, it's largely moot because without a DCT box they aren't what I'm looking for.

I think the M3 and M2 are cars that only make sense (over a normal 2/3 series) when you push them harder. I remember listening to Tiff review the E92, and talking about how it had "come alive" when he was hammering it around a track. If you're pootling around town or doing motorway driving, you may as well buy a 335i.
 
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