Amp upgrade suggestions for 676 stereo

That sounds painful no matter how you approach it. Unfortunately no updates here - it’s been non stop drizzle today and I don’t have a garage, so no progress my side, despite now having everything I need. I’m away for a couple of weeks so this is just gonna have to simmer away until I’m back. Quite annoying really.

I’ll update when I’m back, in the mean time interested to see how your improvements continue!
 
Some good news! It's possible to wire up the missing channel in the Match8 - a bit of faff but got there. It involves connecting up the wires I mentioned in the photos above, and a bit of messing with the DSP software and it's now active. TBH, its a bit silly that they don't include it by default, the tricky part (for me at least) was making sure I had the right connectors on both the BMW and amp side and learning to crimp properly...

I have realised how bad the audio is through my MMI box - it's an older one and compared to the normal stereo is appalling. I have a MR12Volt sat here so thats the next step, then on to tuning...
 
Braveatom said:
Some good news! It's possible to wire up the missing channel in the Match8 - a bit of faff but got there. It involves connecting up the wires I mentioned in the photos above, and a bit of messing with the DSP software and it's now active. TBH, its a bit silly that they don't include it by default, the tricky part (for me at least) was making sure I had the right connectors on both the BMW and amp side and learning to crimp properly...

I have realised how bad the audio is through my MMI box - it's an older one and compared to the normal stereo is appalling. I have a MR12Volt sat here so thats the next step, then on to tuning...
Click to expand...

The core problem is that afaik all the harnesses are made for E90 type and the E89 is just that bit different..
 
Braveatom said:
Some good news! It's possible to wire up the missing channel in the Match8 - a bit of faff but got there. It involves connecting up the wires I mentioned in the photos above, and a bit of messing with the DSP software and it's now active. TBH, its a bit silly that they don't include it by default, the tricky part (for me at least) was making sure I had the right connectors on both the BMW and amp side and learning to crimp properly...
Click to expand...

It would be very helpful for you to diagram your sucessful Match Up8 connector changes to make it work for the E89 for the forum. I'm considering the Match UP8 for my 676A HiFi and I just haven't pulled the trigger because I'm still in other work and need to finish that out before another adventure.
 
Christopher72 said:
Braveatom said:
Some good news! It's possible to wire up the missing channel in the Match8 - a bit of faff but got there. It involves connecting up the wires I mentioned in the photos above, and a bit of messing with the DSP software and it's now active. TBH, its a bit silly that they don't include it by default, the tricky part (for me at least) was making sure I had the right connectors on both the BMW and amp side and learning to crimp properly...
Click to expand...

It would be very helpful for you to diagram your sucessful Match Up8 connector changes to make it work for the E89 for the forum. I'm considering the Match UP8 for my 676A HiFi and I just haven't pulled the trigger because I'm still in other work and need to finish that out before another adventure.
Click to expand...

Looking at it can’t be that tricky …the 1.7 connector should only require a couple of cables transposing..why you’d re-pin it I’m not sure..just cut n splice..that’s what I did with the Match 7
 
Christopher72 said:
It would be very helpful for you to diagram your sucessful Match Up8 connector changes to make it work for the E89 for the forum. I'm considering the Match UP8 for my 676A HiFi and I just haven't pulled the trigger because I'm still in other work and need to finish that out before another adventure.
Click to expand...

Sorry, yes - I meant to post the pics here, another thread at the same time kinda took over so posted the photos there. The thread in question is here - https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=146911

The post is question is below. The only part not mentioned, is the molex connector for the amp side - just 2 pins for the extra wires. I picked up that from ebay, it was only a couple of quid. You just need the pins, not the plastic part. They needed crimping properly which was new to me, but straight forward with the correct tool and a bit of practice (about a tenner) - pins - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234070757538?var=533702545201

Photos attached - hopefully that makes it clear what wire goes where, its just two than need adding. It was tricky finding the correct pins for the BMW connector, but Aliexpress sorted that - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001693286591.html.

BMW side:
IMG_7286.jpeg

Amp side:
IMG_7285.jpeg

Something I haven't considered too much, is the power going in to this channel - the subs are off 1 channel, so only gets 60w for both. There may be milage wiring one of the woofer channels (90w) to the sub channel, but haven't gone that far.

I think I may have needed to add the new channel or activate it in the DSP software but dont remember it being an issue, if at all.

Bonus - Two great videos for setting up the DSP software:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lHGACo76pY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxF_ucxwFTQ

Good luck, happy to help with further questions!
 
The issue with the Match 8 DSP is it has 6 65 watt channels into 4 ohms and 2 90 watt channels into 4 ohms..160 watts into 2 ohms..

The stock subs are 4 ohms..

Therefore stock 676 amp has

Centre speaker one channel
Door mids and tweeters 2 channels
Subs 2 channels
Rear shoulder 2 channels..
Woofers 1 channel.

Audiophile wise it’s illogical to drive the woofers with a mono signal and the woofers with a stereo image (maybe internally the 676 aggregates the two sub signals into a common mono)

So..IMHO..

I’d allocate 65 watt channels to the doors, woofers, rear shoulder, and one 90/160 watt channel to the centre and one 90/160 watt to the subs paralleled up ..

Simples ..

Given the Match 8 supports virtualisation it’s easy to remap the inputs to the outputs…you couldn’t do that with the Match 7 I used..
 
B21 said:
The issue with the Match 8 DSP is it has 6 65 watt channels into 4 ohms and 2 90 watt channels into 4 ohms..160 watts into 2 ohms..

The stock subs are 4 ohms..

Therefore stock 676 amp has

Centre speaker one channel
Door mids and tweeters 2 channels
Subs 2 channels
Rear shoulder 2 channels..
Woofers 1 channel.

Audiophile wise it’s illogical to drive the woofers with a mono signal and the woofers with a stereo image (maybe internally the 676 aggregates the two sub signals into a common mono)

So..IMHO..

I’d allocate 65 watt channels to the doors, woofers, rear shoulder, and one 90/160 watt channel to the centre and one 90/160 watt to the subs paralleled up ..

Simples ..

Given the Match 8 supports virtualisation it’s easy to remap the inputs to the outputs…you couldn’t do that with the Match 7 I used..
Click to expand...

This is a logical step, and with enough time / patience, something I'd consider. I had planned something along these lines, but other time sinks got in the way, and limited opportunity because of the weather.

I will say though, that replacing the amp + speakers really does beef up the sounds - much clearer, more clarity, louder, just all round better - and with a bit of time the tuning brings it to life. I listen to everything from talk radio to rock and old ripped tapes from pirate radio, and it holds up well, despite the variations on the source.

In an ideal world I'll get a calibrated reference mic and do the system properly, but even just the amp, or amp + speakers really makes in shine - even if it can do better! Im using Focals all round with the Match 8, it's a really pleasant set up. Now mine has had plenty of hours to settle in, a retune will be beneficial.

[ref]B21[/ref], you were a real help getting my system set up, really appreciate you input and advice getting it to where it is, and will no doubt be bending your ear for this years rounds of improvements...

[ref]Christopher72[/ref], feel free to ask anything, its quite the journey but definitely worth it!
 
Braveatom said:
B21 said:
The issue with the Match 8 DSP is it has 6 65 watt channels into 4 ohms and 2 90 watt channels into 4 ohms..160 watts into 2 ohms..

The stock subs are 4 ohms..

Therefore stock 676 amp has

Centre speaker one channel
Door mids and tweeters 2 channels
Subs 2 channels
Rear shoulder 2 channels..
Woofers 1 channel.

Audiophile wise it’s illogical to drive the woofers with a mono signal and the woofers with a stereo image (maybe internally the 676 aggregates the two sub signals into a common mono)

So..IMHO..

I’d allocate 65 watt channels to the doors, woofers, rear shoulder, and one 90/160 watt channel to the centre and one 90/160 watt to the subs paralleled up ..

Simples ..

Given the Match 8 supports virtualisation it’s easy to remap the inputs to the outputs…you couldn’t do that with the Match 7 I used..
Click to expand...

This is a logical step, and with enough time / patience, something I'd consider. I had planned something along these lines, but other time sinks got in the way, and limited opportunity because of the weather.

I will say though, that replacing the amp + speakers really does beef up the sounds - much clearer, more clarity, louder, just all round better - and with a bit of time the tuning brings it to life. I listen to everything from talk radio to rock and old ripped tapes from pirate radio, and it holds up well, despite the variations on the source.

In an ideal world I'll get a calibrated reference mic and do the system properly, but even just the amp, or amp + speakers really makes in shine - even if it can do better! Im using Focals all round with the Match 8, it's a really pleasant set up. Now mine has had plenty of hours to settle in, a retune will be beneficial.

[ref]B21[/ref], you were a real help getting my system set up, really appreciate you input and advice getting it to where it is, and will no doubt be bending your ear for this years rounds of improvements...

[ref]Christopher72[/ref], feel free to ask anything, its quite the journey but definitely worth it!
Click to expand...

The RTA with a reference mic is a major step forward ..but..yet again..there’s an artisan element to getting the best out of it..I’ve now done 20 ish RTAs over the Match 7 / Match 10..and still learning..

Given you can re-pin / rewire at the amp end it’s going to be relatively easy to reconfigure it..
 
Take this with a pinch of salt, but have been thinking about this. I can't see that they'd mess with the internals of the amp, but where it may offer an improvement is the tuning within the software. It looks like they're added the two magic wires for the woofers - odd, given that that they dont offer these woofers as part of their speaker offering.

What I suspect - and this is purely an educated guess - is the tuning profile is geared up for the Z4, potentially using high quality reference mics for a decent base line config.

However - this is likely used with the their Bavsound speakers. One thing I have realised is the tuning is highly dependant on the speakers. I've got through Crunch, Match, and finally Focal - and they all behaved differently, with different tuning profiles required.

Long story short - I suspect if you buy the full Bavsound system, both speakers and amps - it'll sound great. it may even sound great with a different speakers, but likely not optimal. I guess it comes down to what you want, and how prepared you're to play with the system to get what you want from it. As B21 says, 20 tunings later and still working on perfection!

I will say, a basic tune, using a crappy (built in to lap top) mic, the match 8 amp with the extra wires for woofers, and Focal speakers sounds great., I also have no doubt that a reference mic (Umik-1 or similar), possibly playing With the power going to what channel (currently using the basic / standard set up) will improve things significantly, but currently, it sounds fab.

Throw in wind noise, roof down , roof up, audio source , music choice - its likely impossible to get the 'perfect' tune.

However, Always room for improvement... and to some of us, thais is the fun bit!
 
Braveatom said:
Take this with a pinch of salt, but have been thinking about this. I can't see that they'd mess with the internals of the amp, but where it may offer an improvement is the tuning within the software. It looks like they're added the two magic wires for the woofers - odd, given that that they dont offer these woofers as part of their speaker offering.

What I suspect - and this is purely an educated guess - is the tuning profile is geared up for the Z4, potentially using high quality reference mics for a decent base line config.

However - this is likely used with the their Bavsound speakers. One thing I have realised is the tuning is highly dependant on the speakers. I've got through Crunch, Match, and finally Focal - and they all behaved differently, with different tuning profiles required.

Long story short - I suspect if you buy the full Bavsound system, both speakers and amps - it'll sound great. it may even sound great with a different speakers, but likely not optimal. I guess it comes down to what you want, and how prepared you're to play with the system to get what you want from it. As B21 says, 20 tunings later and still working on perfection!

I will say, a basic tune, using a crappy (built in to lap top) mic, the match 8 amp with the extra wires for woofers, and Focal speakers sounds great., I also have no doubt that a reference mic (Umik-1 or similar), possibly playing With the power going to what channel (currently using the basic / standard set up) will improve things significantly, but currently, it sounds fab.

Throw in wind noise, roof down , roof up, audio source , music choice - its likely impossible to get the 'perfect' tune.

However, Always room for improvement... and to some of us, thais is the fun bit!
Click to expand...

Yup that all sounds logical and plausible…

FWIW..contrary to various assertions that it’s pointless and not possible to discern changes to the audio system with a convertible top rood down ..it’s simply not so..I’ve now tried 676/677/Match 7/Match 10 with all sorts of 676/677/Eton/AF/Audison speakers and it’s very clear ‘pun’ that you can easily and obviously discriminate and perceive ‘quality’ changes to the audio systems ..with the roof up or down..

Given it’s accepted that the sound stage is heavily fabricated to reproduce a stereo image ( in contrast to a high end domestic audio system)..then the higher end offerings are much much better than the basic E89 offerings..

Whether you think it’s worth paying an ever increasing premium to do that is each persons choice..
 
B21 said:
Braveatom said:
Take this with a pinch of salt, but have been thinking about this. I can't see that they'd mess with the internals of the amp, but where it may offer an improvement is the tuning within the software. It looks like they're added the two magic wires for the woofers - odd, given that that they dont offer these woofers as part of their speaker offering.

What I suspect - and this is purely an educated guess - is the tuning profile is geared up for the Z4, potentially using high quality reference mics for a decent base line config.

However - this is likely used with the their Bavsound speakers. One thing I have realised is the tuning is highly dependant on the speakers. I've got through Crunch, Match, and finally Focal - and they all behaved differently, with different tuning profiles required.

Long story short - I suspect if you buy the full Bavsound system, both speakers and amps - it'll sound great. it may even sound great with a different speakers, but likely not optimal. I guess it comes down to what you want, and how prepared you're to play with the system to get what you want from it. As B21 says, 20 tunings later and still working on perfection!

I will say, a basic tune, using a crappy (built in to lap top) mic, the match 8 amp with the extra wires for woofers, and Focal speakers sounds great., I also have no doubt that a reference mic (Umik-1 or similar), possibly playing With the power going to what channel (currently using the basic / standard set up) will improve things significantly, but currently, it sounds fab.

Throw in wind noise, roof down , roof up, audio source , music choice - its likely impossible to get the 'perfect' tune.

However, Always room for improvement... and to some of us, thais is the fun bit!
Click to expand...

Yup that all sounds logical and plausible…

FWIW..contrary to various assertions that it’s pointless and not possible to discern changes to the audio system with a convertible top rood down ..it’s simply not so..I’ve now tried 676/677/Match 7/Match 10 with all sorts of 676/677/Eton/AF/Audison speakers and it’s very clear ‘pun’ that you can easily and obviously discriminate and perceive ‘quality’ changes to the audio systems ..with the roof up or down..

Given it’s accepted that the sound stage is heavily fabricated to reproduce a stereo image ( in contrast to a high end domestic audio system)..then the higher end offerings are much much better than the basic E89 offerings..

Whether you think it’s worth paying an ever increasing premium to do that is each persons choice..
Click to expand...

Quite so. One aspect I didn't consider in the above is the audio source, I suspect that the Bavsound system, if indeed its a case of selecting tuning - is they will likely be using the CD player or, at very least, the radio as the source. Now days, with internet radio apps, all bets are off. Even the same app, but different stations, the audio is wildly different - Even Global, who produce XFM and LBC, sound wildly different (different loudness etc) and thats mirrored across many stations. Not everyone is playing from high quality sources, at high bit rate.

All this to say, be mindful of expensive preconfigured solutions. it may be exactly what you desire, but its not a one hit solution!
 
Christopher72 said:
:popcorn:
Click to expand...

Since Chris has pulled up his camp chair..

I use Youtube at the highest bit rate I can get or most of music is encoded in AAC at around 192kbs -256kbs

Cause my car was a 677 it had the fibre optic stuff which feeds the Match 10 via a MOST to digital optical bridge..

About to put a USB card in it so my new Android unit can go direct from Android USB to Match USB

But..on my 677 based system have to say the aux and bluetooth music inputs aren't bad!
 
B21 said:
Christopher72 said:
:popcorn:
Click to expand...

Since Chris has pulled up his camp chair..

I use Youtube at the highest bit rate I can get or most of music is encoded in AAC at around 192kbs -256kbs

Cause my car was a 677 it had the fibre optic stuff which feeds the Match 10 via a MOST to digital optical bridge..

About to put a USB card in it so my new Android unit can go direct from Android USB to Match USB

But..on my 677 based system have to say the aux and bluetooth music inputs aren't bad!
Click to expand...

haha, sorry if I came across as antagonistic, or disagreeing with [ref]B21[/ref], not the case. The point I tried and fialed to make was that despite the finest tuned stereo and quality speakers, the source matters a great deal, and its never gonna change a rough recording to some thing you'd hear in the Royal Albert Hall, despite promises from the manufacturers!

Streaming services, Spotify, Apple, Tidal, YT - will sound great. I listen to a lot of internet radio too (classic rock, Dance, talk radio, 'New' music, god knows what else), and A Ragge station playing original, well loved, dusty 45s flown over from Jamaica in the 70s broadcast @ 64kbs is never gonna sound great, even if it is in the spirit of how it should be listened.

When it comes to Bavsound in particular, I can only assume (possibly wrongly) that they've tuned it for their specific set up, and deviating from that will have an impact. so buyer beware.

I should add, that while roof up, windows closed gives the best sound, the windows open, roof down does have an impact - but its still sounds great. Hoofing down the motorway with the roof down you can still get the tunes.

If you are in London I'd be happy to give o a demo. As I've said before, mines not perfect (no ref mic set up, and a retune is always on the cards ) but you can really hear the difference between the standard 676 and the upgrade, its possibly the best upgrade I've made to the car.
 
I'm sure the Bavsound copy of the Match is tweaked in some way..

I'll pass on the demo simply cause I only visit London once very 4-5 years!

I didn't see it as antagnostic! :thumbsup:
 
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