Addiction to analogue NA cars = s54 + mezger

RedUn

RedUn

Senior member
 Cotswolds
Been on and off looking for something to replace the MR for a couple of years now, looked at literally everything you can think off within a reasonable budget, in the end it had to stay. It does little miles today but that engine packed in a relatively tweaked MR chassis is something to behold.

After much deliberation and attempting to be sensible, it turns out its nigh on impossible.

The search restarted with a AMG GT towards the end of last year, then it evolved into some of Modenas finest before I then I gave up for a while. Whilst the engines may have been superb I have little interest in an automatic, flappy paddle affair nor a car that has twelve different modes, eco, comfort, comfort +, sport, sport +, race, track, not interested.

After much more deliberation and about a 1000 hours on pistonheads and YouTube, much to the wife's delight, I decided there was only one car that could fit the bill, when I say car, I mean engine, mated to a 6 speed manual transmission that sends the power though a limited slip differential to the rear wheels.

This of course, involved a quick visit to "look", involving a fairly satisfying test drive that ended up at a credit card machine, we've all been there. It had to be a done, a 3.6 mezger bolted in to a 997.1 GT3 is something to behold, the weight of the clutch, the short shift that will take some time to master, the off cam idle, the low mass feeling of the engine, lovely.

OK I must admit, it does have a sport button but so does the MR, this one just appears to open the exhaust up, I can deal with that until I unplug the bloody thing.

So, being sensible was a complete disaster, if you ever want financial advice don't ask me. My wife is quite pleased that we now have 6.8 litres of +8000rpm naturally aspirated engine sat in the garage and no food on the table.

Pics to follow once I get chance to give them both a clean :thumbsup:
 
nice. a sensible (if there is such a thing) place to put your money.

did you look into an early manual R8 at any stage?
 
gadgetJunky72 said:
nice. a sensible (if there is such a thing) place to put your money.

did you look into an early manual R8 at any stage?
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Fingers crossed!

I didn't no, I appreciate them but they aren't really my thing, they do sound lovely mind.
 
Clearly you have made a decision that makes sense and will have the support of the Forum membership. :wink:
 
Whole-heartedly agree there! Not that I'm in the position to change up at this point, but honestly I've wrangled the hypothetical question of what I'd actually want to replace the MC with for some time on and off, and honestly the only car that for me fits the bill is a 997 GT3 (I'd love it in clubsport trim personally but in an understated colour). Wonderful machines, and you really are quite right - that engine is something to behold!!

Definitely post some pictures up once you've taken delivery - and a video of the sound would be nice too :P

Congratulations - lucky boy! 8)
 
apparently they go on and on if looked after:

[youtube]q4jJhjdNTc4[/youtube]

though, on a much smaller scale, i've just done something similar myself - just bought myself a 986 boxster S, mainly because of a flat 6, naturally aspirated engine. its no mezger engine, but its a step in the right direction, and gets me into mid engined cars should i want something more exotic (like the aforementioned Audi R8) in a few years time.

looking forward to seeing pics!
 
What other choice was there and who needs food anyway. As long as you have money for petrol, things will be just peachy. :lol:

Waiting for those pictures. :wink:
 
brillomaster said:
apparently they go on and on if looked after:

[youtube]q4jJhjdNTc4[/youtube]

though, on a much smaller scale, i've just done something similar myself - just bought myself a 986 boxster S, mainly because of a flat 6, naturally aspirated engine. its no mezger engine, but its a step in the right direction, and gets me into mid engined cars should i want something more exotic (like the aforementioned Audi R8) in a few years time.

looking forward to seeing pics!
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I did see that too, good news I guess, tidy car considering the mileage!

Enjoy the 986, I'm sure thats lovely with the roof down and the flat 6 howl! 8)
 
I've also developed an addiction to N/A petrol engines and after a couple of 3.0Si E86s I bought an M Coupe about 18 months ago.

Because I haven't been able to use it much I'm still very much in love with it, but I can definitely see the apppeal of a 997.1 GT3 so just enjoy yours - hopefully you'll forget about the hunger pains!
 
Been meaning to update this for some time but not got around to it... thought I'd turn it into a bit of a comparison for those interested as the cars really are very similar, both from the same era, both very mechanical, just two different ways to go about it.

I'm not comparing apples and apples as the zed has had a fair amount of suspension work (KW CS, bushes, arbs, aggressive geo and corner weghting) , brakes (stoptechs all round) and some other bits and bats over the years, the GT3 is completely standard on a oem spec geo for the minute too.

Thought it's worth mentioning tyres quickly the zed is on PSS and the other on PS2s, they'll be coming off soon.

I'll try and cover a few areas that I think are important for these kind of cars, I'm no expert so take it as a raw opinion and nothing more!

Starting with the steering then, the zed has more weight but the light front end in the GT3 gives more feel. The difference isn't a huge as you might think, both turn in great, lots of confidence and both give that nice feedback chatter as you drive down the road. The biggest difference is probably the steering wheels themselves, the slim alcatara wheel feels quite delicate when comparing to the chunky one on the zed but it's very simple, no buttons. I like that.

Secondly for me gearshift, I've done the cdv mod on the zed and the f10 mod, it's loads better than standard. In terms of difference, they are both boxes that don't like to be rushed. The change and feel is better on the pork but I'm used to the zed now after 10 years, it's got a heavy duty feel too it where the GT3 is more snickety and accurate. In terms of clutch, the zed is probably half the weight, bites less aggressive. GT3 has more of a motor sport feel to it, needs some revs but then no slipping. In terms of ratios, for road use, the zed hands down. The GT3 ratios are really very long, 3rd gear is serious licence loosing. Bit annoying as you can't use the revs so much but I guess the car is geared for much higher speeds so you can't have it all.

In terms of brakes, the zed is over servoed slightly but the stoptechs front and rears are an epic setup so it's not really that fair of a comparison. The GT3 is on steels, still impressive, progressive and a nice feel but the zed monsters it. It feels like the zed would pull up several car lengths before.

Next up, suspension / ride and the engines. I'll hopefully get back tomorrow. Quick pic for now of two dirty cars

20210618_222934.jpg
 
Cheers Tom, I'll post a bit more now :thumbsup:

Suspension then, quite interesting one, I can't really compare to a standard MR as its so long ago now. What I would say is that I expected them to be quite similar, club sports and the H&R arbs on the zed aren't exactly easy going but how wrong could I be. I can still drive the zed quickly down bumpy b roads, ok on big bumps it'll be unsettled but no more than any other car I've driven. In comparison the GT3 is awful on the same road, it wouldn't see which way the zed went, genuinely it's all over the place to the point where its not even fun. On a smooth A road the zed is lovely, you can use the gears, heel n toe, it's brilliant fun. In comparison the GT3 starts to come alive but where you can use the zed and use the gears it all gets very serious very quickly, long gears don't help here. I'd go as far as saying its genuinely impossible to use it on the road properly, if someone says the can they either live at the top of Scotland or they aren't telling the truth.

I suppose that leads on to the engines quite nicely. We all know and love the s54 it's a genuine masterpiece, it's the main reason I bought my MR. A high revving 6 cyclinder with individual throttle bodies, what's not to like. I genuinely love the engine, the noise, and I don't suppose I'm alone there! To compare to the mezger, it's only got a 400cc advantage and its a very similar race derived engine but it's very different. I assume its got a much more aggressive cam and a lighter flywheel from the lumpy idle and zingy feeling. It's very tractable though, it'll pull from 1500rpm no bother, 4th gear at 30mph no problem. Open it up though and it's something else, I can't really explain it to be honest as it's only supposed to have 50bhp more but it genuinely feels at least 100bhp more. I suppose there's less drive train loss with no prop shaft but that can't explain the difference. It starts to really come alive around 4k rpm, at 6k rpm you can feel the cams change again and at that point it really goes for it, between 6k and 8k it feels 50% more than the s54 and I don't know how. What would be interesting is to do the cams and full airbox on the s54 and see what the difference is then.

Summarising so far, I love my zed and I hope to keep it, for road use, trips abroad, blasting around it's perfect, it's on that borderline as fun, quick and usable, nothing better than heel and toeing down the box with the eisenmann race singing away. In comparison the GT3 is serious and I love how racey it feels but for road use the zed spanks it all day long.

I suppose what I'm saying is that for the money, you literally can't beat the ZMs whichever variant you have!

More updates to come as I spend more time, I'm in the middle of taking it to bits and cleaning everything, as you do :roll:
 
Z4M-2006 said:
Lovely.

How much coins is a 997.1 GT3 nowadays?
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They seem to vary a lot mileage depending on mileage and condition, a lot been on track and the market is quite niche. Lots of looking reading and waiting to find a good one. No straight answer on price, they go for what people are willing to pay, I was outbid on a different car which I already thought was top money, your not far off a 991 GT3 though, but then you've lost the pureness and gained a load of electronics and no manual box, at least on the .1s anyway!
 
Congratulations! I reckon a 997 gt3 is a real sweet spot in the 911s history.

Good to hear the Z4m still has its place in your garage, it really goes to show what a bargain they are in the UK.
 
Very nice. A 997 GT3 is the one that got away for me.

I had a 993C2 at the time which I loved, also what is now known as the Mezger engine. Unfortunately even with the front lift kit on the 997.2, the GT3 wouldn't make it out of the underground parking I had a the time, otherwise I would have ordered one.

A friend who has now sadly passed at such a young age, had both a 996 GT3 MK1 and a Z4M Coupe. It made for quite an interesting comparison, that's for sure.

Enjoy the GT3 :driving:
 
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