About had it with DSP - Options?

GuidoK said:
BM54, not BM45.

BM54 is the general type of radio used in (among) the e46. It is not 100% the same as the z4 unit, but probably enough.

I don't know for sure, but I think the inputs of the amp are low level.
Soldering in other amp ic's in the HU certainly won't give you the soundquality given by a seperate amp. A seperate amp is an amplifier/booster (thus boosting the voltage to get more (and more undistorted) power), and the HU doesn't have that type of schematic.
You're basically getting average headunit quality from something like halfords. Probably better than a standalone OEM HU, but nowehere near the quality and power that the hifi prof dsp provides.
And in a convertible, that is something you'll notice (in a convertible you need more power as both the background noise is much higher and the open roof makes the acoustics very different (open field conditions versus closed room)
Click to expand...

So yeah the basic stereo is the same from what I understand. Inside the stereo there is a set of amps, now... what is popular is to bypass those to give you low level inputs for adding pre-outs, if you use a high to low level converter the sound quality is meant to suffer, because you are amplifying distortion through the system - The reason people add the pre-outs to the stereo is because of the decrease in quality offered by a high-low input converter - the high level output has been messed with by the EQ.

The amp issue... it started because the BM54 has amps that die. The replacement amps are meant to actually be really good and the feedback from people who have done this mod is really quite high. The basis for wanting to go with this route would be that you wouldn't need to find space for a separate amp or high to low converters and you would find that the quality is better. You also wouldn't have to run as many wires around the place.

The OP isn't going to get the power from the hifi-dsp as the dsp amp is gone, and if you read the reviews again the bmw DSP system is not highly regarded in terms of DSP, with suggestions it is tinny - again not my thoughts but reviews from other people. Regarding the soldering if separate amps.... well you're actually installing a small amp board, it is only 40w rms I think, but that is all you need, yes it won't give you the power of a nice separate amp I agree but then you are going to be sticking with standard speakers so realistically how much wattage do you think you need?

I think you could do the setup for less than £200. and with only one actual standard class D sub amp. The other options here are very complicated and will maybe not give you the best quality.
I stand corrected - if you use http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audison-Bit-Ten-Signal-Interface-Processor-DSP-Car-Sound-Audio-Processor-BitTen-/310630757579?pt=UK_In_Car_Technology&hash=item48530934cb
that is meant to make it nice... but its not cheap!

I think the other option which would strongly appeal to me is to remove the standard headunit or maybe just mess with it a little - you have a tablet installed so could you not just use that for sound? and then maybe hide an amp and the like behind the stereo fascia?
 
sk93 said:
this all seems so very, very overcomplicated.....

I am not a complete novice when it comes to car audio, and here I was thinking I could hook up the existing front/rear/left/right high-level speaker inputs to a decent 4-channel high to low signal converter.

That would give me four RCA outputs, which I could then plug into an Alpine PDX-V9 amplifier.

The amp would allow me to specifically configure each corner of the car (in regards to frequency range and individual volume/power).

I would also branch the rear left and rear right feeds to form a subwoofer input for the amp, giving me dedicated control of the subwoofers.

Finally, I'd wire in a set of decent crossovers onto the front outputs from the amp, and link the pillar tweeters into them, ensuring only the higher frequency ranges reach the tweeters.



This allows me to keep the existing headunit and allow the car to remain looking "stock" which is of big importance here.

In regards to amp placement - ideally I want everything hidden, hence the reason for putting it in the battery well.
the cause of the original problem has been identified and resolved, so risk of a repeat is very low..


Does this not sound like it'll work to you guys?
Click to expand...


yeah that would work. It seems a messy way to do it to me tho. especially given you want to hide it all in the boot pit, you are going to be struggling for space and having to run a lot of wire.
 
The tablet idea is out.. The sound quality from the headphone jack is not great.

I understand the signal degredation and eq settings etc

But just using an amp in the back of the headunit just isn't going to give me the greatest level of configuration.
Granted, 40w RMS per channel is more than enough, but how do we configure the frequencies being sent to each speaker?
The standard speakers do not contain crossovers and the DSP amp controlled this.
Without that amp, the headunit amp would need to be specifically set up for the speakers I have to avoid low frequencies causing issues - especially with the tweeters.
How would it also cope with the subs?
They effectively take the front left and right feeds into the amp, and are converted to only give a ranger between 50-110htz (or so I've read).

I think the risk of going for a second hand headunit, of which O have no idea on reliability or history, which is then modded to have a third party amp installed into it...
I don't know.. It just smacks me with potential issues and annoyances.

With regard to additional wiring, im not sure why there's a concern over the amount of wiring required?

All the speakers, inputs, power and ground wires are all already sat in my battery well.
The only additional wiring would be the introduction of the tweeter crossovers... Unless I'm missing something?


I just do not want to spend ANY money and then find out that actually, i need this bit too, oh and this needs to be done to get this to work, and if you don't like the sound, then you'll need to pay for this.. And so on.

Frankly, that's exactly where im at and why i want to move away from it.

An aftermarket amp just seems perfectly place, especially if its professionally installed, and thus warrentied.
 
sammysquid, the bit10 is a fantastic piece of kit (I'm running the 10d in my car).


sk93, if you're just after a setup that just 'works' then go down the amplifier route as previously discussed and let the amplifier take care of the x-over points.

If you were to go down the route of the modified headunit, you'd just need inline capacitors. It works but it's quite a primitive (for lack of a better word) way of going about it and certainly very inefficient.

Your easiest option would be to have the tweeters on 1+2, the woofers on 3+4 and subs on 5. This saves needing to fuss around with additional capacitors and such and the amplifer also supports bandpass on channels 3+4 (basically cuts the highs and lows, perfect for your footwell woofers).

Just did some browsing and something like this (although out of budget) would tick all of your boxes.Given the variety of options the audison processors give, it should give you at a minimum, a comparable listening experience, if not better than what the carver does.

Edit: Oh and Audison products have a decent margin on them too, so go to your local car audio installer and do some haggling.
 
The issue for me is you have the signal in your headunit.... what you are doing is amplifying it to then covert it to a lower sound and then to amplify it again...

If you feel more comfortable having a separate amp setup then I would go that way. For me you're just adding a lot of extra components.

out of interest
"Granted, 40w RMS per channel is more than enough, but how do we configure the frequencies being sent to each speaker?
The standard speakers do not contain crossovers and the DSP amp controlled this.
Without that amp, the headunit amp would need to be specifically set up for the speakers I have to avoid low frequencies causing issues - especially with the tweeters.
How would it also cope with the subs? "
The aim is that you take the standard amps that the standard head unit contains, and you install higher quality amps. you have to remember that amp inside your headunit currently is built down to a price and what you do is uprate it. The aim is that you would use a standard set of crossovers to sort out the frequency. Just as most people do. I remember most friends into car audio use separate crossovers rather then those built into amps but that might just be them. I honestly don't know.
Now the pre-outs. The pre-out can be tapped into the headunit before the amp, therefore you get a better quality signal.
But like I say its maybe more for someone into a custom setup. And I think you are better going for an off the shelf setup.

My concern about the boot pit was just the size, I thought you would be using separate cross overs not one built into the amp.
 
NeilP said:
If you were to go down the route of the modified headunit, you'd just need inline capacitors. It works but it's quite a primitive (for lack of a better word) way of going about it and certainly very inefficient.
.
Click to expand...
Really I think you would have to use crossovers anyway. I wouldn't recommend just capacitors alone, I would get some stand alone crossovers.
something cheap like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Focal-Utopia-crossovers-/281363350968?pt=UK_In_Car_Technology&hash=item41829005b8
would be a good starting point
 
sammysquid said:
NeilP said:
If you were to go down the route of the modified headunit, you'd just need inline capacitors. It works but it's quite a primitive (for lack of a better word) way of going about it and certainly very inefficient.
.
Click to expand...
Really I think you would have to use crossovers anyway. I wouldn't recommend just capacitors alone, I would get some stand alone crossovers.
something cheap like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Focal-Utopia-crossovers-/281363350968?pt=UK_In_Car_Technology&hash=item41829005b8
would be a good starting point
Click to expand...

Crossovers are mainly filled with caps anyway. Easiest way to circumvent issues surrounding passive x-overs is to go active.
 
Hi guys

I had the same problem with the battery bucket flooding and blowing up the amp. I have (had) the Carver DSP version.

Looking on ebay for a second hand replacement amp, it seems like there are other options (redstar DSP, non-DSP etc), all of which are cheaper than the one I need, predictably!

I presume I need a DSP amp. Does anyone know whether a Redstar DSP will be compatible or do I need to fork out to replace with the exact same Carver part?

Thanks
 
JM324 said:
Hi guys

I had the same problem with the battery bucket flooding and blowing up the amp. I have (had) the Carver DSP version.

Looking on ebay for a second hand replacement amp, it seems like there are other options (redstar DSP, non-DSP etc), all of which are cheaper than the one I need, predictably!

I presume I need a DSP amp. Does anyone know whether a Redstar DSP will be compatible or do I need to fork out to replace with the exact same Carver part?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Hi JM,

Mine blew up last year and the silence was ok for a while but I have been through the same hoops as everyone else. I unfortunately have the DSP amp too, and there was a little water in the boot the amp looked fine but was fried. I looked all over for different plug and play options but in the end managed to find a second hand one from a forum member for a good price.

Its important to try to match up the HW/SW version too, otherwise you may have some problems.

They are getting harder to come by now though so if you find one snap it up .
 
I'm having a somewhat similar issue. I just bought my '03 about a month ago and, naturally, had issues with leaks (Carver amp included). The head unit came on but had no output. I couldn't find any Carver units, so I substituted a Redstar. Now I get sound from the head unit, but at very low volume and no volume control at all (up or down). Is this a problem with the head unit or amp?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom