986 Porker

[arl10]

Hi Guv
I think Mortimers were bought out late last year they have an excellent reputation and generally sell well spec d cars , the 986 is quite a raw car and fairly dated however each to their own , I certainly would not discount it . They are only going in one direction at the moment .

Last year I bought a 2.7 987.1 , 54k , fsh , 6 former owners from a reputable Garage , the car is in Cobalt blue , satnav , phone prep , full blue leather , 6 disc cd , Bose sound . They are all spec dependant so this explains the huge price difference from 8-15k , colour is also a factor lots of black and grey , best colours are red , yellow and Cobalt which make the cars stand out .
Know matter what people say it goes like stink and feels like a performance car , the 987 is generally more suited to 6ft + drivers is modern inside and mpg is around 28-30 .
On a public road unless you are keen on loosing your licence there are not many modern cars that would leave it in a corner and top speed is 163 mph , the S is 165 but more prone to bore score , the IMS from 2006 was not an issue but check for leaks !
Tax is also a thing to look out for as the S and sport version are all in the £550 a year bracket .
I would stick to a reasonable budget leaving £3-500 a year for service , tyres are £130-160 a corner , brake discs and pads about 1k for all , most enthusiasts recommend an oil change every 5000 miles . As for the 911 they are fairly heavy in comparison , unless you get a newer version they can still catch you out ( rear engine penduline effect ) compared to the Boxster mid engined .
It is also a tail of two cars like the Z4 open topped and very good roof when up , however the Cayman is also a great car .
I would keep away from the tip tronic as it is shockingly bad , drive a few first to see if the 2.7 is fast enough and try a few of the same engine as how they have been treat is how they drive , as a rule of thumb I always check that the tyres are all the same make , they have the recommended N rating and are a decent brand , the brakes are brembo so check that they dont have aftermarket cheap ones fitted .
The paint on the cars should be excellent as the shut lines and a good well documented folder is a piece of mind .
As for if you should buy one yes ! 100%
Arl10

 

[arl10]

Here`s mine !

 

[tomscott]

I suppose it depends what you have come from, the Z4M was a great car and had bags of power, the 987 Boxster S is 50hp down and really felt underpowered for what is a great chassis and set up for a sports car. When you add up the £550 tax sub 30mpg for a 276hp or 291hp car it is hard to justify but then the 2.7 at 231 and 241hp coming from the Z4M I just found it very sluggish.

The Z4M has that widow maker feel like the 911 which is why I like it. The 911 more so and keeps you on your toes. The Boxster gives you so much confidence than even trying hard doesn't get the back end moving at all and it just isn't fun to me at all. As a sports car its excellent in that regard but I prefer something a little more unpredictable.

I would disagree on spec, most boxsters and caymans were sold with little spec you were lucky to find a 2.7 with a few options. The majority is down to them being serviced correctly. As the above you can quickly spend 5-8k replacing consumer parts on any of that generation. At the age they are the majority will need it doing which is why there are such big price differences. Plus some are good some are not so good.

The M96 and 7 are based on the same engine the problem is the original M96 was originally a 2.5l capacity for the entry level Boxster in 1996 and they bored it out so the walls get thinner with no more support. So they get warped, cylinders score and crack. The M96 was put in the 996 Carrera in 3.4l form then in 3.6l. The M96 was also used in the base 997 Carrera in 3.6 form. Interestingly the IMS is also much harder to replace in the M97... many 997s have been diagnosed with IMS failure when really they have cracked cylinders.

This is why the 997 Carrera S has a bad rep because its a 3.8 over 3.6 on the 996 and so is weaker and more prone to failure. That being said the 997 has had less recorded failure than the 996. Having these engines rebuilt they relay the piston walls with harder material to increase the strength.

The M97 also has a redesigned bearing which is better but still fails.

On the other hand the 3.2 987 Boxster engine is meant to be the best of the bunch. Thats the one I bought thinking it would be a good bet... and had all the above problems and needed a complete engine rebuild which essentially wrote off the car.

It all depends on how well they have been treated and maintained, cars that seem to be used harder more often fair better from non scientific research. MSV who run Oulton Park, Brands Hatch, Donnington, Caldwell, Bedford and Snetterton had a fleet of 996 Carreras that were used for driving days and not one had a IMS failure which is interesting.

These cars are old now and tbh any specialist will put the borescope down to check and ensure there is no wear. If the pistons are warped you can tell pretty quickly because the car makes sure a harsh metallic starting noise its awful... which is what mine did after 1000 miles. Technologies have moved on too, they can swap bearings a lot easier because its a normal fail safe now. They are usually upgraded to better 3rd party options too. If you buy well with all the checks you have to be really unlucky.

I didn't believe all the internet hype and it happened to me.

I had my 996 done and my dad had his 997 done. The 996 is on 78k and has had 3 bearings, the nice thing is you can get them done at the same time as a clutch and flywheel as they tend to go through them between 60-80k. Its also not as expensive as people quote as I said I had the lot done for £1500. Just part of maintenance with them like the bearings in the Z4M.

So basically 997s have the same issues as the 996 and worse in the Carrera S variant and again the price reflects this as they aren't very sort after. In fact 997 Carreras in many cases are commanding higher money currently. In all honesty the M97 has so little differences, including valve timing for higher output, mechanical vacuum pump and electronic oil management thats about it from a headline perspective.

997.2s which is 2009 onward use the 9A1 and is direct injection, they don't have the IMS bearing but still have scoring issues but not to the extent of the older cars.

Regardless and I've had first hand experience its not a deal breaker you have to be super unlucky.

My father had a 997.1 for nearly 10 years and it was an incredible car.... in the OPs favourite colour. Biggest regret is him selling it and not being able to buy it.

We took it all through Europe and man did it sing on the passes!

Porsche 911, Sustens Pass, Switzerland by Tom Scott, on Flickr

Susten Pass, Switzerland by Tom Scott, on Flickr

Porsche 911 Carrera S, Malcesine, Lake Garda, Italy by Tom Scott, on Flickr

IMG_0600 by Tom Scott, on Flickr

He sold it and bought a 991 which is a different animal entirely.

Z&P Eurotrip UK to Monaco 2017 by Tom Scott, on Flickr

Furka Pass, Gold Finger Point, Z&P Eurotrip UK to Monaco 2017 by Tom Scott, on Flickr

The most sort after cars are the Gen 2s which is why they are 10-15-20k more than the 997. That being said the 991 and above has lost some of the feel that makes a 911 a 911 and I personally love the 997 Cs it has a great engine, gearbox and I love the way 911s drive like nothing else you can buy. Some love it some hate it.

Personally I bought a 4S convertible because it was a good price to get into the brand and into a 911. A 981 is my ideal car but they are so sort after that a good spec car low milage car with the exhaust, suspension, chrono etc is easy 35-40k and caymans even more so will have to wait a bit further down the line.

I use the C4S all year round and the 4WD is excellent back where I come from in cumbria has no problem in the snow and the muddy country lanes, I love the top down motoring experience because the exhaust and engine sound incredible. I do a lot of motorway driving between Manchester and Cumbria so it being a heavier car doesn't really bother me too much. The C4S vert is by no means the best 911 but as a comfy GT its excellent and I appreciate it the more I drive it.

Plus... Dat ass... best ass ever on a 911 imo (obviously better on the coupe but still)

Porsche 991, 996 Carrera 4S, Yorkshire Porsche Festival, Lotherton Hall, Leeds by Tom Scott, on Flickr

Porsche 911's, Yorkshire Porsche Festival, Lotherton Hall, Leeds by Tom Scott, on Flickr

 

[craig3.2]

Looks Nice in Red,and ages well by the pics.

 

[philip27]

It's a tough one buying any older sport's car bills are always likely at somepoint so it's worth having some money set aside.

I have had my 987 Gen 1 Cayman S for just over a year now and I absolutely love it. I did alot of research before buying it and bought it from a independent specialist Cavendish Porsche. The car had stacks of history and was prepared to a high standard by the garage. No way would I touch one without a comprehensive history or a good independent garage to take it to. I have had to replace the condensers on mine in October last year it was a simple enough job. The car wants for nothing it is my weekend toy and I do not regret buying it for one second it's a fantastic car to drive.

I looked for Z4M Roadster but could never quite find the correct one so went in a different direction and to be honest I'm glad I did even if the desire to own a Z4M is still strong.

I loved owning both my Z4 they were great cars and I adored how my 23i E89 looked I still think it's a great looking car. I can understand GOV wanting a red one!

The old 23i


The Cayman

 

[tomscott]

Very nice, the desire to own a few different cars is there too. You can get a little attached and not experience different cars, hang on for too long and although the jump from the Z4 is a big one once you do it I don't think there is much to look back on. The Z4 is incredible for what it is and maybe the value proposition isn't as it once was, but once you drive some of these other cars you quickly see the benefits.

Life's too short even if its for a small amount of time should try and get into as many cars as possible. The Z4 is a great car but there are lots of other great cars to try too.

I would love another Z4 but then I had one for 3 years and 25k and although I still hanker over one I've done it and had a lot of good experiences and met some great people. Think thats the bit I miss the most the Porsche forums aren't a touch compared to here for example nobody posts and no-one is interested but the meet scene is far more established with huge turn outs. Silverstone Classic for example we were one of maybe 600 cars.

Now the Z4Ms have jumped up in value and also hard to find a good one it makes less sense and think its better to try new things than look back. Always nice to have the memories but I think its important to make new ones with different cars.

 

[Jaw]

been considering alternatives after test driving a 23i and a 20i and even a TT 2.0 TFSI - all red ( you all know my liking for a red car ) as for prices the Audi was £10k and the 20i £14k so not particularly cheap - tbh I was underwhelmed with them all as a potential "toy" - the Audi visually up close did nothing for me although the performance was better than the Beamers but without the "sound"

Even considered going back to a classic Elan ( M100 ) but don't want all the issues you get with a classic .

Found a Guards Red semi - classic Porker 2001 advertised- obviously a bit cramped for a big bugger like me but would just about fit - absolutely stunning visually ( in my view ) well aware of the IMS issue with early Boxsters but research shows it affected only 4 % of cars - could always upgrade the seal if needs be - this particular car is 17 years old but the MOT history is impeccable with straight passes each year with no advisories ever !! and only 57k miles - pricey yes for a 2001 car but as we all know you only get what you pay for ! only real negative is it's had 8 owners but for 17 years may be not so bad ?

The car is with a Porsche specialist garage sold with a 6 month warranty.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201811212609780?sort=sponsored&colour=Red&advertising-location=at_cars&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&model=BOXSTER&make=PORSCHE&radius=100&postcode=po304ls&page=1

The 986 is very much a cheap way to get into a P car, and as such are often neglected. Is 8 owners over 17 years a bad thing? Depends. If the maintenance and changing of hands is spread out then it's a total non-issue. If there is a quick succession of changes with gaps in the servicing when overlaid then there may be cause for concern. Check if any 'major' maintenance has been done, IMS bearings, rebuild works etc. IMS upgrades/changeouts should be done as a preventative measure really. Typically you'd look for them if the car has done about 50-60k, but given the age it would be a welcomed bonus, if not something to be budgeted for.

Tiptronic is awful so you're right to go for a manual. If looking for a performance machine then really you want a 3.2S. The 2.7 is a little wet. But that said even though they offer 'hot hatch' performance, drop the roof and show it a corner and you'll still come out the other side smiling.

Maintenance costs can be ownerous, let alone if anything bank breaking goes wrong. I have a modified 996 on 60k miles and a 981 on about 35k miles and in either case, servicing and parts can be steep. As an example a gt3 bumper and a deep sump cost around $10k although that might well be thanks to australia pricing.. Coolant, oil, transmission oil, brake fluid and pads was set to cost about $8k from a dealer on the 996 or about $3.5 on an independent.

The 986 is much like the 996 but less edgy, more compliant. In a straight line they're not spectacular hitting 60 in anywhere from 6 - 7 seconds, but they make a great package for the price and the hatchback-esque straight line performance suddenly doesn't matter as much. Not sure what the price disparancy between a well maintained 986, a 987 and a 981 is in the UK at the moment, but the later two take what was a good all round package and tweak it into something quite special. The 981 is one of my favourite cars I've owned, absolutely beautiful bit of machinery.

 

[chuckmiester]

No the 997 gen 1 still has the same engine as the 996 but bored out. Even more prone to bore score than the 996. the gen 2 997 has the dfi engine.

 

[chuckmiester]

No the 997 gen 1 still has the same engine as the 996 but bored out. Even more prone to bore score than the 996. the gen 2 997 has the dfi engine.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Plus... Dat ass... best ass ever on a 911 imo (obviously better on the coupe but still)

Porsche 991, 996 Carrera 4S, Yorkshire Porsche Festival, Lotherton Hall, Leeds by Tom Scott, on Flickr

Porsche 911's, Yorkshire Porsche Festival, Lotherton Hall, Leeds by Tom Scott, on Flickr

I’m afraid I can’t see it myself. The rear end of the 996 is ugly and bulbous, made worse by the dated full-width reflector. Combined with the weird headlights, it made me lose interest in new Porsches for a number of years during the late 1990s and early 2000s right up until the 997 GT3 was released.

 

[R60BBA]

Plus... Dat ass... best ass ever on a 911 imo (obviously better on the coupe but still)

Porsche 991, 996 Carrera 4S, Yorkshire Porsche Festival, Lotherton Hall, Leeds by Tom Scott, on Flickr

Porsche 911's, Yorkshire Porsche Festival, Lotherton Hall, Leeds by Tom Scott, on Flickr

I’m afraid I can’t see it myself. The rear end of the 996 is ugly and bulbous, made worse by the dated full-width reflector. Combined with the weird headlights, it made me lose interest in new Porsches for a number of years during the late 1990s and early 2000s right up until the 997 GT3 was released.

Agreed the 996 is the one to avoid.

Don’t mind the full-width reflector as they’re used on all 4WD 911s including today’s 992, but then again RWD is the way to go on these.

It’s either gotta be aircooled or 997 upwards.

 

[tomscott]

Plus... Dat ass... best ass ever on a 911 imo (obviously better on the coupe but still)

I’m afraid I can’t see it myself. The rear end of the 996 is ugly and bulbous, made worse by the dated full-width reflector. Combined with the weird headlights, it made me lose interest in new Porsches for a number of years during the late 1990s and early 2000s right up until the 997 GT3 was released.

Agreed the 996 is the one to avoid.

Don’t mind the full-width reflector as they’re used on all 4WD 911s including today’s 992, but then again RWD is the way to go on these.

It’s either gotta be aircooled or 997 upwards.

lol!

All personal preference. The 997.1 has all the same issues as the 996 so not sure where your getting your info from.

Buy a good one and maintain it correctly and its slim you have issues.

 

[gov]

Thanks for all the information and advice - after all this I think I'll stick to the E89 :lol: I love the shape of the Porker but at the end of the day it really is too much of a squeeze for my 6'7" - yes I could get a bigger model but whilst I could afford the extra dosh I couldn't justify spending £20k or £30k on a weekend toy

 

[Lynchy]

Have you seen the red E89 for sale on the Z4 owners club on Face Book ?

 

[gov]

didn't know there was a Z4 owners club on FB - have sent a request to join

 

[Lynchy]

This one

 

[BMWZ4MC]

I’m afraid I can’t see it myself. The rear end of the 996 is ugly and bulbous, made worse by the dated full-width reflector. Combined with the weird headlights, it made me lose interest in new Porsches for a number of years during the late 1990s and early 2000s right up until the 997 GT3 was released.

Agreed the 996 is the one to avoid.

Don’t mind the full-width reflector as they’re used on all 4WD 911s including today’s 992, but then again RWD is the way to go on these.

It’s either gotta be aircooled or 997 upwards.

lol!

All personal preference. The 997.1 has all the same issues as the 996 so not sure where your getting your info from.

Buy a good one and maintain it correctly and its slim you have issues.

The 997 doesn’t have quite the same aesthetic issues that the 996 has - no amount of maintenance can undo a dog’s dinner

 

[R60BBA]

Agreed the 996 is the one to avoid.

Don’t mind the full-width reflector as they’re used on all 4WD 911s including today’s 992, but then again RWD is the way to go on these.

It’s either gotta be aircooled or 997 upwards.

lol!

All personal preference. The 997.1 has all the same issues as the 996 so not sure where your getting your info from.

Buy a good one and maintain it correctly and its slim you have issues.

The 997 doesn’t have quite the same aesthetic issues that the 996 has - no amount of maintenance can undo a dog’s dinner

Couldn’t have been put any better

 

[chuckmiester]

I’m afraid I can’t see it myself. The rear end of the 996 is ugly and bulbous, made worse by the dated full-width reflector. Combined with the weird headlights, it made me lose interest in new Porsches for a number of years during the late 1990s and early 2000s right up until the 997 GT3 was released.

Agreed the 996 is the one to avoid.

Don’t mind the full-width reflector as they’re used on all 4WD 911s including today’s 992, but then again RWD is the way to go on these.

It’s either gotta be aircooled or 997 upwards.

lol!

All personal preference. The 997.1 has all the same issues as the 996 so not sure where your getting your info from.

Buy a good one and maintain it correctly and its slim you have issues.

i bought a good well maintained one from a very well known specialist in Malton and it developed a scored bore not long after I bought it. Luckily this was covered by there in house warranty and got rebuilt with 6 new pistons and liners. I’ve had it nearly 6 years now, done Le Mans 24hr in it three times and anguleme rally of the ramparts again in France once. (if you’ve never heard of it google it, it’s fantastic) the car is now part of the family and won’t be parted with. The best arse on any car imho. And they come with a heated baby changing mat

 

[R60BBA]

Agreed the 996 is the one to avoid.

Don’t mind the full-width reflector as they’re used on all 4WD 911s including today’s 992, but then again RWD is the way to go on these.

It’s either gotta be aircooled or 997 upwards.

lol!

All personal preference. The 997.1 has all the same issues as the 996 so not sure where your getting your info from.

Buy a good one and maintain it correctly and its slim you have issues.

i bought a good well maintained one from a very well known specialist in Malton and it developed a scored bore not long after I bought it. Luckily this was covered by there in house warranty and got rebuilt with 6 new pistons and liners. I’ve had it nearly 6 years now, done Le Mans 24hr in it three times and anguleme rally of the ramparts again in France once. (if you’ve never heard of it google it, it’s fantastic) the car is now part of the family and won’t be parted with. The best arse on any car imho. And they come with a heated baby changing mat

LOL the fact that you put your baby’s shitty nappy on that 996 sums it up for me.

Not a chance in hell would I let a baby nor it’s nappy for that matter come anywhere near my P&J.

All jokes aside. I really don’t like the look of the 996 but it all boils down to personal preference at the end of the day!