676 Upgrade - Match Up 8 Harness?

Braveatom said:
B21 said:
The technic doesn't achieve anything as its got the same fundamental problem of not coping with the woofers which are unique to the E89...the Match 10 will come with a harness so will be easier to cut and solder wires between the adaptor harness and the Match 10 supplied harness than trying to repin..IMHO..but I've only done it twice before..

:D If you've done it twice before, thats twice more (maybe 1.5 times more?) than me! I assumed the benefits of using a Technics harness would be that it's fully wired for the Z4, given you choose the car model and the installed stereo option - shame thats not the case, kinda defeats the point of it!

Yes you learn the hard way the E89 is like an E90..but not close enough..everything is just a little different as it is is to the E85…
 
B21 said:
the match 10 will come with a raw harness..between the two should be do-able

Gathering stuff / preparing for custom made connection.
Decided to not touch the female plug connected to the original amp so I have an easy future option to restore everything back to original.
I have ordered male connector with plugs from ali express, awaiting the delivery to see if it’s all really usable.

In the meantime; anything that needs to be done with the canbus pins (18&19) on the female plug or just leave open/unconnected on the (new)amp side?

AnubisZed said:
Here's the pinout for the 42 pin plug.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3moidjo3 ... cdi41&dl=0
 
Wolter said:
B21 said:
the match 10 will come with a raw harness..between the two should be do-able

Gathering stuff / preparing for custom made connection.
Decided to not touch the female plug connected to the original amp so I have an easy future option to restore everything back to original.
I have ordered male connector with plugs from ali express, awaiting the delivery to see if it’s all really usable.

In the meantime; anything that needs to be done with the canbus pins (18&19) on the female plug or just leave open/unconnected on the (new)amp side?

AnubisZed said:
Here's the pinout for the 42 pin plug.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3moidjo3 ... cdi41&dl=0

No and yes
 
Brief update; bought the match 10 and a 42 pin bmw connector from Ali express and started to install the crimp connectors etc. The inputs go very well (0.75 qmm wires). The speaker cables (1.5 qmm) are not going to fit…attempt failed.
Think ill buy a match pp 1.7 and think i’ll move on to the cut&solder advice b21 gave in the first place :rofl:
 

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Wolter said:
Brief update; bought the match 10 and a 42 pin bmw connector from Ali express and started to install the crimp connectors etc. The inputs go very well (0.75 qmm wires). The speaker cables (1.5 qmm) are not going to fit…attempt failed.
Think ill buy a match pp 1.7 and think i’ll move on to the cut&solder advice b21 gave in the first place :rofl:

Experience is the name men give to their mistakes..
 
Wolter said:
Brief update; bought the match 10 and a 42 pin bmw connector from Ali express and started to install the crimp connectors etc. The inputs go very well (0.75 qmm wires). The speaker cables (1.5 qmm) are not going to fit…attempt failed.
Think ill buy a match pp 1.7 and think i’ll move on to the cut&solder advice b21 gave in the first place :rofl:

Not sure if you tried this, but the pins seem directional- I had to turn them 90/180/270 degrees before I figured out which way they went in. Quite tight even then, had to push in with a small screwdriver to get then seated properly. I matched the cable width by eye so yours may well be too big. ;(

Edit - the cable on the Match 8 loom is pretty thin wire, apart from the subs, I expect the Match 10 to be similar. You could potentially get new molex connectors for the amp side, and use a wire guage that will fit the BMW side, not sure if that easier than soldering.
 
While waiting on the patch cable I thought I’d might as well struggle on with my own cable….noticed on the BMW electrical scheme the wire from connector to normal speakers was 0,75 qmm as well so fitted a short piece of 0,75 qmm cable on the match wires and with a lot of pushing/pulling with small tools (and cursing) I was able to finish it last night and did a quick install/trial run.
No problem with the 90/180/270 orientation (thanks for the tip).

Testing showed all inputs and outputs work as expected.
Guessed the left/right channel for the woofer wrong ending up with channel E to right and channel F to left speaker. I can live with that 🤓.

I will make a couple of pictures today.

Now on with the hard part…
 
Hi all,

Just another update on my little project; finished the wiring, installed the amp, upgraded some spreakers (except the subs, focal es100ke for midrange&tweater, match for center and backs and the Herz SP165's I had installed couple of months ago).

Run a couple of tries on both AF and REW software to tune the system. I know the speakers probably have to run-in for a couple of hours more so will do a more fine tuning later on. I used AF for time alignment and decided to use REW for the tuning.
Amazed by how good REW is integrated into the AF software. Simple copy/paste to import the REW filters into the amp.

Used 12 volts feed wire method as mentioned in this post https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2045231#p2045231 by B21

Patch cable still the first one made by myself (seems to work pretty ok-ish and did not have the time to upgrade with modified match pp harnass).

Here's a picture of the first attempt tuning results (front midrange + tweeters + midbass + sub's working together) and a couple of installation pictures.
Note that I had to remove the plastic covers of the focal crossover filters to properly fit in the doorcards.
I used 80 hz for the subs, 80/300 hz for the midbasses, 300 on the midranges, all with Linkwitz-Riley crossover filters, -24 dB/octave slopes and the ATF house curve as target.
 

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Nice work. I managed to get the subs in today, using the ‘quicker’ method. There’s a few clips that need replacing before it can fully put it back together, but going from a project that I wasn’t looking forward to, to be being relatively straight forward (but somewhat time consuming) was quite satisfying.

It’s the weather holds up tomorrow I’ll do the door speakers- they are already upgraded but having the Match ones should balance the sound better. Seeing your photo of the crossover location is a real help- I couldn’t find a place that was suitable for simple inline ones, so your place for proper blocks looks good.

I have some dynamat for the door that I wasn’t confident installing before, but after today I may well dive in….

Anyone have any thoughts on sound deadening? The internet at large seems mixed.

Great to see progress!
 
Braveatom said:
Nice work. I managed to get the subs in today, using the ‘quicker’ method. There’s a few clips that need replacing before it can fully put it back together, but going from a project that I wasn’t looking forward to, to be being relatively straight forward (but somewhat time consuming) was quite satisfying.

It’s the weather holds up tomorrow I’ll do the door speakers- they are already upgraded but having the Match ones should balance the sound better. Seeing your photo of the crossover location is a real help- I couldn’t find a place that was suitable for simple inline ones, so your place for proper blocks looks good.

I have some dynamat for the door that I wasn’t confident installing before, but after today I may well dive in….

Anyone have any thoughts on sound deadening? The internet at large seems mixed.

Great to see progress!
Have been meaning to ask - what's this quicker method? Hats off to you as only method I've seen is the SimpleCarGuy video:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lbLSEAbvQY&t=15m42s[/youtube]

If it's that then doesn't look that quick to me, but all things are relative!

That said, I now have my DSP amp installed and I am already chuffed with the sound still with stock subs. There are obviously levels and depends what your objective is with mine being simply increased clarity and less distortion.

Also - thanks for the earlier info about the wiring for the footwell speakers - harness was supplied exactly like that so I no extra work required in that area on my part.

I will post some details at how I arrived at my own very very basic tune.
 
argh, i wrote a reply to this and somehow lost it...

[ref]Fady[/ref], Thanks, and no problem - TBH I was quite enjoying the ride with this - unfortunately, I don't have a garage so have to wait for weather / free time to line up and would quite like it done, its been months - Its quite fun sharing the journey and hearing about others in the same place!

I've read that the amp is the best upgrade with normal speakers, and better speakers with the standard amp are the best upgrade - it's impossible to know what's actually the greatest improvement, but both is no doubt better than either. The standard subs definitely improve with a better amp, and the Match ones are an improvement over the standard (when powered) - it all adds up but presumably is incremental after a point.

I followed the Simple Car Guy video you linked to, that's the quicker way - it's almost exactly as he describes - quite a methodical job more so than many.

In his video, a few things required a bit of extra thinking, and some clips needed replacing (for me at least, you may have more luck). The panel that holds the speaker (not the grill, the actual panel) was quite tricky to get off - it requires a bit of force and encouragement but pops off. The other two things circled in the picture are the clips that needed replacing - I can supply the part numbers if you are unlucky, mine are on order - even send you some of the ones on the far right, I had to order 20, but only need 3! The wind deflector added to this, and required replacement screw covers - it is impossible to remove them without a little damage, but probably not seen when back in place. The netting on the parcel shelf was quite tricky too.

And a hair dryer is good enough to separate the speaker from the enclosure, no need for a heat gun.

Given the clips are on order, the car isn't fully back together, but the hard part is done. All in, it's probably a 3-4 hr job (minus what still needs to be done). The good thing is, the car is usable without the trim parts - it's a bit of a jigsaw so can't add back all the parts without replacing the hidden fixings.

I had a bunch of issues fitting the door speakers - more on that another time but it took 4 hours to do one door that would still need more work, two visits to the local electrics shop as the crossover was broken out of the box - I got annoyed and pulled the trigger on different gear.

Given the car is half in pieces, and half upgraded, it's quite simple to step back and redo a few things. Now I have a full set of Focals to install - subs, back shoulder and door speakers as I found a decent price for them (a shop called RoadRadio) - not cheap but cheapest I've seen.

So a few steps forward, and a few back. I should have all the clips and speakers come the weekend and will see if this is the final stretch.

To answer your question - replacing the subs arent the horror story it looks like, it's somewhat time-consuming but not hard, and was surprised in a good way. I'm impressed with the Match subs, worth the effort - the about-turn to Focal is just because of issues in general with the Match set-up, it's definitely not plug and play... the Match amp is definitely staying though!

IMG_8458 2.jpeg
 
Braveatom said:
argh, i wrote a reply to this and somehow lost it...

[ref]Fady[/ref], Thanks, and no problem - TBH I was quite enjoying the ride with this - unfortunately, I don't have a garage so have to wait for weather / free time to line up and would quite like it done, its been months - Its quite fun sharing the journey and hearing about others in the same place!

I've read that the amp is the best upgrade with normal speakers, and better speakers with the standard amp are the best upgrade - it's impossible to know what's actually the greatest improvement, but both is no doubt better than either. The standard subs definitely improve with a better amp, and the Match ones are an improvement over the standard (when powered) - it all adds up but presumably is incremental after a point.

I followed the Simple Car Guy video you linked to, that's the quicker way - it's almost exactly as he describes - quite a methodical job more so than many.

In his video, a few things required a bit of extra thinking, and some clips needed replacing (for me at least, you may have more luck). The panel that holds the speaker (not the grill, the actual panel) was quite tricky to get off - it requires a bit of force and encouragement but pops off. The other two things circled in the picture are the clips that needed replacing - I can supply the part numbers if you are unlucky, mine are on order - even send you some of the ones on the far right, I had to order 20, but only need 3! The wind deflector added to this, and required replacement screw covers - it is impossible to remove them without a little damage, but probably not seen when back in place. The netting on the parcel shelf was quite tricky too.

And a hair dryer is good enough to separate the speaker from the enclosure, no need for a heat gun.

Given the clips are on order, the car isn't fully back together, but the hard part is done. All in, it's probably a 3-4 hr job (minus what still needs to be done). The good thing is, the car is usable without the trim parts - it's a bit of a jigsaw so can't add back all the parts without replacing the hidden fixings.

I had a bunch of issues fitting the door speakers - more on that another time but it took 4 hours to do one door that would still need more work, two visits to the local electrics shop as the crossover was broken out of the box - I got annoyed and pulled the trigger on different gear.

Given the car is half in pieces, and half upgraded, it's quite simple to step back and redo a few things. Now I have a full set of Focals to install - subs, back shoulder and door speakers as I found a decent price for them (a shop called RoadRadio) - not cheap but cheapest I've seen.

So a few steps forward, and a few back. I should have all the clips and speakers come the weekend and will see if this is the final stretch.

To answer your question - replacing the subs aren't the horror story it looks like, it's somewhat time-consuming but not hard, and was surprised in a good way. I'm impressed with the Match subs, worth the effort - the about-turn to Focal is just because of issues in general with the Match set-up, it's definitely not plug and play... the Match amp is definitely staying though!

IMG_8458 2.jpeg

Think my install is not going to be anywhere near as exciting as yours since as said, I have no immediate plans to replace the subs or woofers and have kept thing s plug and play with the amp itself and the speakers I have replaced.

My amp was supplied with 2 tune files and all I have really done is take one of them and then level match the output from all of the channels to get what I consider to be a decent sound. For me this means feeling that all of the sound is coming from the front left and right channels and that bass, mid and treble are blended and feel like they from a single source rather from sets of different speakers.

A couple of shots from of the subwoofer settings:

78LcrJuqrv_uEmKSoY4PAofKTmCy53_v7iJqGO2zBkHs=w2400.jpg

Rear subs left and right (which the DSP effectively converts to mono anyway) and the gain setting here is the only thing I changed and is set at about half way.

pRKoN9brTLL7pxmKKdtBsQQVafTmO7hOTBmG_Czxy2jU=w2400.jpg

This is channel F or the front woofers. I am actually surprised at how effective these are. That channel only gets 65 watts but if the speakers are in parallel (can't find anything that specifies this) then they will be at 2 ohms and therefore effectively be getting around 65 watts each. Here the gain or output level end up being quite high.

6aps9ozF77_wS3yC7oVADJ88hZPA7jHXPpcGKumsblN4=w2400.png

Then there's a setting under the FX tab that allows you to boost the bass frequencies at low volumes (so a bit like the old fashion loudness button) which is very effective.

All told, I probably spent about a good hour on the setup however I did do a whole lot of reading since at first glance the software is quite intimidating. I am sure lots of people have great fun with fiddling the seemingly infinite number of adjusts that can be made to each and every channel but I just sat in the car and then trusted my ears!
 
Fady said:
Braveatom said:
argh, i wrote a reply to this and somehow lost it...

[ref]Fady[/ref], Thanks, and no problem - TBH I was quite enjoying the ride with this - unfortunately, I don't have a garage so have to wait for weather / free time to line up and would quite like it done, its been months - Its quite fun sharing the journey and hearing about others in the same place!

I've read that the amp is the best upgrade with normal speakers, and better speakers with the standard amp are the best upgrade - it's impossible to know what's actually the greatest improvement, but both is no doubt better than either. The standard subs definitely improve with a better amp, and the Match ones are an improvement over the standard (when powered) - it all adds up but presumably is incremental after a point.

I followed the Simple Car Guy video you linked to, that's the quicker way - it's almost exactly as he describes - quite a methodical job more so than many.

In his video, a few things required a bit of extra thinking, and some clips needed replacing (for me at least, you may have more luck). The panel that holds the speaker (not the grill, the actual panel) was quite tricky to get off - it requires a bit of force and encouragement but pops off. The other two things circled in the picture are the clips that needed replacing - I can supply the part numbers if you are unlucky, mine are on order - even send you some of the ones on the far right, I had to order 20, but only need 3! The wind deflector added to this, and required replacement screw covers - it is impossible to remove them without a little damage, but probably not seen when back in place. The netting on the parcel shelf was quite tricky too.

And a hair dryer is good enough to separate the speaker from the enclosure, no need for a heat gun.

Given the clips are on order, the car isn't fully back together, but the hard part is done. All in, it's probably a 3-4 hr job (minus what still needs to be done). The good thing is, the car is usable without the trim parts - it's a bit of a jigsaw so can't add back all the parts without replacing the hidden fixings.

I had a bunch of issues fitting the door speakers - more on that another time but it took 4 hours to do one door that would still need more work, two visits to the local electrics shop as the crossover was broken out of the box - I got annoyed and pulled the trigger on different gear.

Given the car is half in pieces, and half upgraded, it's quite simple to step back and redo a few things. Now I have a full set of Focals to install - subs, back shoulder and door speakers as I found a decent price for them (a shop called RoadRadio) - not cheap but cheapest I've seen.

So a few steps forward, and a few back. I should have all the clips and speakers come the weekend and will see if this is the final stretch.

To answer your question - replacing the subs aren't the horror story it looks like, it's somewhat time-consuming but not hard, and was surprised in a good way. I'm impressed with the Match subs, worth the effort - the about-turn to Focal is just because of issues in general with the Match set-up, it's definitely not plug and play... the Match amp is definitely staying though!

IMG_8458 2.jpeg

Think my install is not going to be anywhere near as exciting as yours since as said, I have no immediate plans to replace the subs or woofers and have kept thing s plug and play with the amp itself and the speakers I have replaced.

My amp was supplied with 2 tune files and all I have really done is take one of them and then level match the output from all of the channels to get what I consider to be a decent sound. For me this means feeling that all of the sound is coming from the front left and right channels and that bass, mid and treble are blended and feel like they from a single source rather from sets of different speakers.

A couple of shots from of the subwoofer settings:

78LcrJuqrv_uEmKSoY4PAofKTmCy53_v7iJqGO2zBkHs=w2400.jpg

Rear subs left and right (which the DSP effectively converts to mono anyway) and the gain setting here is the only thing I changed and is set at about half way.

pRKoN9brTLL7pxmKKdtBsQQVafTmO7hOTBmG_Czxy2jU=w2400.jpg

This is channel F or the front woofers. I am actually surprised at how effective these are. That channel only gets 65 watts but if the speakers are in parallel (can't find anything that specifies this) then they will be at 2 ohms and therefore effectively be getting around 65 watts each. Here the gain or output level end up being quite high.

6aps9ozF77_wS3yC7oVADJ88hZPA7jHXPpcGKumsblN4=w2400.png

Then there's a setting under the FX tab that allows you to boost the bass frequencies at low volumes (so a bit like the old fashion loudness button) which is very effective.

All told, I probably spent about a good hour on the setup however I did do a whole lot of reading since at first glance the software is quite intimidating. I am sure lots of people have great fun with fiddling the seemingly infinite number of adjusts that can be made to each and every channel but I just sat in the car and then trusted my ears!

Your setting for the woofers and subs seem ‘interesting’….where did they come from?
 
Fady said:
Think my install is not going to be anywhere near as exciting as yours since as said, I have no immediate plans to replace the subs or woofers and have kept thing s plug and play with the amp itself and the speakers I have replaced.

I kinda had enough of the Match 'Plug And Play' system - the front speakers, partly my fault, just tipped me over the edge. The subs / back speakers / amp (with adaptions) were all fine, but the door speakers did me in. Due to pure stupidity, I'd managed to dent the domes on both speakers and couldn't pop them back, and the only place the crossover would fit is behind the foam water barrier, and one of the crossovers being broken out of the box was annoying - it took 2 visits to the local electrics place to fix - a return was impossible because of the mashed cones. The only solution I could think of for placing the crossovers was to order more connectors from AliExpress, wait, and make up new wires... and it tipped me over the edge to a new set up. I wholeheartedly don't recommend the front speakers from Audotecfischer!

But, some good news - the whole system is in place now, and the car is back together - and will likely repurpose one of the Match speakers as the centre speaker, the dented dome apparently doesn't impact the sound, but unfortunately unsellable. Putting the car back together (from the sub install) was harder than I thought, mainly due to the netting on the roll bars, the main strip of trim that runs behind the sets was a bugger to slot on - but removing the roll bars and the plastic strip behind them solved the problem, and was easy - the rivets on the photo just needed removing to get some leverage.

(Sorry for going off on a tangent about the subs, this thread is a bit of a catch-all for audio upgrades, so seemed fitting)

IMG_8626.jpeg
 
B21 said:
My amp was supplied with 2 tune files and all I have really done is take one of them and then level match the output from all of the channels to get what I consider to be a decent sound. For me this means feeling that all of the sound is coming from the front left and right channels and that bass, mid and treble are blended and feel like they from a single source rather from sets of different speakers.

I spent about an hour too on the tune - somewhat basic, and now finally feel somewhat comfortable using the software - did the time adjustment, levels using the 'Tune EQ' feature, and a bit of manual adjustment. And you are right, the footwell woofers are a bit of a dark horse!

The plan is to dive in more when the speakers have had a few hours to break in. I'll be back with questions, for both you and [ref]B21[/ref], no doubt. Trying to find a balance that works between various sources of varying quality (internet radio, ripped old mix tapes, Spotify...) and across a broad spectrum of music is gonna be interesting, to say the least!
 
Braveatom said:
B21 said:
My amp was supplied with 2 tune files and all I have really done is take one of them and then level match the output from all of the channels to get what I consider to be a decent sound. For me this means feeling that all of the sound is coming from the front left and right channels and that bass, mid and treble are blended and feel like they from a single source rather from sets of different speakers.

I spent about an hour too on the tune - somewhat basic, and now finally feel somewhat comfortable using the software - did the time adjustment, levels using the 'Tune EQ' feature, and a bit of manual adjustment. And you are right, the footwell woofers are a bit of a dark horse!

The plan is to dive in more when the speakers have had a few hours to break in. I'll be back with questions, for both you and [ref]B21[/ref], no doubt. Trying to find a balance that works between various sources of varying quality (internet radio, ripped old mix tapes, Spotify...) and across a broad spectrum of music is gonna be interesting, to say the least!

I went through about 6 major iterations sndonky really broke the back of it when a AF technician looked at my set up and made quite a few comments..FWIW..

If you want to bob me an afpx file I can look at it..alternatively have a look at one of mine…

Did you read the articles in the AF website on V4 s/w..even though they’ve updated the s/w a lot of what they say in the articled hold true…

likewise I didn’t like / blew up the AF door speakers…the Audison are sooo much better
 
B21 said:
I went through about 6 major iterations sndonky really broke the back of it when a AF technician looked at my set up and made quite a few comments..FWIW..

If you want to bob me an afpx file I can look at it..alternatively have a look at one of mine…

Did you read the articles in the AF website on V4 s/w..even though they’ve updated the s/w a lot of what they say in the articled hold true…

likewise I didn’t like / blew up the AF door speakers…the Audison are sooo much better

Thanks, you've previously sent me your files, so have something to work off - appreciate the offer and you sending them.

At the minute I'm gonna give it some time to break in - right now its quite heavy on the high end, mids & bass are OK but expect things to balance out / change over the course of the first 10 hours or so, so for now, it is good enough - but will be coming back to it in the next week or so. In the meantime, I'll check out the V4 docs, they seem a lot more comprehensive than V5, but hadn't thought to look at them. :thumbsup:
 
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