6 months with an EV

[coldel]

Infrastructure is the problem for sure though. Councils have other priorities over and above charging electric cars, and their remit is very limited in any case, it should be the private sector building the infrastructure not council or government - sure there should be subsidies and grants but energy companies should be stepping in and taking that slot of building out large fast charging stations etc. There is quite simply no realistic solution right now for charging at home if you dont have a driveway, we cant sit and wait around for that to change.

I disagree, our entire economy and way of life is completely dependent on the easy movement of people and goods. Now the government has mandated that the way we do that Must change. For that to happen a fundamental part of the infrastructure that we need has to change too. To largely leave it to the free market to deal with is totally unacceptable , the government made the (massive) decision they need to be heavily involved in the solution.

The infrastructure for moving is in place, the government have built a transit system for that purpose. The government have mandated that the fueling of vehicles must change, but the private sector provide the vehicles, they provide the fueling, they provide the maintenance of both, not the government. The private sector is already building infrastructure that we see on the roads in terms of charging stations, bays, and home solutions. The private sector build the actual EVs. This is where innovation and change comes from in response to government policy.

That said, the government will supply grants to the private sector to develop and innovate as they do with say the renewable energy sector as a response to the Paris agreement, billions of your tax pounds goes to energy companies to build wind farms and the like, but that is not the government building the energy infrastructure itself. EVs will be the same, they will aid with tax breaks and grants the private sector.

 

[buzyg]

Yes and almost all of them only came with a 3 year warranty and they sill work just fine .

Many will have required new batteries to keep them working Just Fine. <£100 for most small ICE cars. Would be interested to know the cost of a new battery pack for a Nissan Leaf, for example?

I’d really love to know why you believe it will need a new battery? Genuine question. Where is the fact based evidence you have for this? Please god don’t tell me it was something you read in the Daily Fail!

Can't say I read the papers. I use older model mobile phones though. Mobile Phone batteries are pretty hopeless after 8 years of regular charging. Time will tell for EV's

 

[Nictrix]

I think the main difference is that not all engines need replaced after a certain amount of time or miles but you can guarantee that the batteries will need changed.

Based on what evidence? If you have links to genuine evidence that EV batteries are “guaranteed” to need replacing the I would genuinely love to read it.

Not just electric car batteries but all batteries eventually need to be changed.
If they didn't we would never have to change the battery in our normal cars.

 

[Pondrew]

To largely leave it to the free market to deal with is totally unacceptable , the government made the (massive) decision they need to be heavily involved in the solution.

British Governments are very good at making decisions, but God awful at implementing them and creating solutions.

My local Council had the brilliant idea of putting in some EV charging points on a virtually unused piece of car park near our bus station. I would bet it cost the tax payer a lot more than it should have, as anything the Gov does seems to cost treble the going rate!
Due to where the idiot Council put these chargers ie the furthest parking area from the town centre, no-one uses them. Ever. Never seen a car at a charging point and I go past there almost daily.

The locals are still adjusting to mains electricity in their houses, so EVs are a good way off here yet!

 

[Unitedleeds1919]

From what I read the batteries on EVs, like any battery device take your mobile phone for example, degrade over time. Something like 2-3% a year by all accounts depending on use and brand etc. So after ten years yes your battery wont 'fail' but the range on your EV if it were 200 miles will now be around 140-160 miles for example.

I would definitely consider an EV for the boring driving, the about town driving picking up my son from football etc. the only problems I have are that I live in zone 3 London we have no driveway and often cannot park outside our own house - charging will be a complete hit and miss. There are charging bays in roads about 10 mins drive away but they are often full - I noticed EV cars often parked there for over 24 hours they use it as free parking which is annoying. To own an EV where I live I would have to take into account that I am going to have to drive past a petrol station and out to find charge points and sit there for however long waiting for it to charge.

Its ironic really that the best place to own an EV is more suburban areas, where driveways are more accessible but also less densely populated and probably not as prone to pollution issues. In the city where they are needed most, is the hardest place to own them unless you are very wealthy and lucky enough to own a big house.

You see this is a classic example of one of the myths about batteries that perpetuate on the Internet. The battery in your phone is completely unmanaged so does degrade by around 2-3% per year. In battery terms things like phones get abused, almost always being charged to 100% (ofter daily), almost always rapid charged, no thermal management system to stop them getting too hot or cold.

Not of these things are true with regards to EV batteries, with the exception of no thermal management on the early Nissan Leaf. EV batteries also have a built in buffer, our Skoda has an 82 kwh battery, only 77 kwh can be used. This stops the battery being stressed by being charged/depleted to its maximum.

Tesla batteries have been around the longest and their average drop off is 1-1.5% per year but then levels off to almost 0 when it gets to 90% of its original capacity. There are Tesla taxi's out there with 500,000 miles on the original battery.

I do agree that the infrastructure in urban areas is not good enough, but that's not an EV issue that's a government/local council not getting their s**t together issue. If they want us all to get on board then they need to provide infrastructure for people who can't charge at home.

Some councils are better than others. Quite a few are trialing a type of cable channel that will allow a cable to be run across a footpath if for example you live in a terraced house. I know I doesn't stop someone else parking in front of your house but it all helps.

Don't forget we've had around 140 years of refinement gone into building ICE car infrastructure, we've only had around 10 years for EV's.

Tesla taxis? Every taxi driver I have spoken to whilst been driven in their hybrid has said you cannot do a taxi drivers shift in an electric car, it has to be hybrid and I have spoken to many taxi drivers.

 

[-Tom-]

From what I read the batteries on EVs, like any battery device take your mobile phone for example, degrade over time. Something like 2-3% a year by all accounts depending on use and brand etc. So after ten years yes your battery wont 'fail' but the range on your EV if it were 200 miles will now be around 140-160 miles for example.

I would definitely consider an EV for the boring driving, the about town driving picking up my son from football etc. the only problems I have are that I live in zone 3 London we have no driveway and often cannot park outside our own house - charging will be a complete hit and miss. There are charging bays in roads about 10 mins drive away but they are often full - I noticed EV cars often parked there for over 24 hours they use it as free parking which is annoying. To own an EV where I live I would have to take into account that I am going to have to drive past a petrol station and out to find charge points and sit there for however long waiting for it to charge.

Its ironic really that the best place to own an EV is more suburban areas, where driveways are more accessible but also less densely populated and probably not as prone to pollution issues. In the city where they are needed most, is the hardest place to own them unless you are very wealthy and lucky enough to own a big house.

You see this is a classic example of one of the myths about batteries that perpetuate on the Internet. The battery in your phone is completely unmanaged so does degrade by around 2-3% per year. In battery terms things like phones get abused, almost always being charged to 100% (ofter daily), almost always rapid charged, no thermal management system to stop them getting too hot or cold.

Not of these things are true with regards to EV batteries, with the exception of no thermal management on the early Nissan Leaf. EV batteries also have a built in buffer, our Skoda has an 82 kwh battery, only 77 kwh can be used. This stops the battery being stressed by being charged/depleted to its maximum.

Tesla batteries have been around the longest and their average drop off is 1-1.5% per year but then levels off to almost 0 when it gets to 90% of its original capacity. There are Tesla taxi's out there with 500,000 miles on the original battery.

I do agree that the infrastructure in urban areas is not good enough, but that's not an EV issue that's a government/local council not getting their s**t together issue. If they want us all to get on board then they need to provide infrastructure for people who can't charge at home.

Some councils are better than others. Quite a few are trialing a type of cable channel that will allow a cable to be run across a footpath if for example you live in a terraced house. I know I doesn't stop someone else parking in front of your house but it all helps.

Don't forget we've had around 140 years of refinement gone into building ICE car infrastructure, we've only had around 10 years for EV's.

Tesla taxis? Every taxi driver I have spoken to whilst been driven in their hybrid has said you cannot do a taxi drivers shift in an electric car, it has to be hybrid and I have spoken to many taxi drivers.

There are quite a few teslas as taxis around Bath/Bristol. I spoke to one of the owners before he got it (as I have one for my daily), and I caught up with him recently when I randomly got him as a lift. Over 2 years of use, and it’s working really well for them, they’ve got a mini fleet!

I will chip in about the infrastructure around here at least. I’ve moved home recently and it’s taking months for me to be able to get a home charger installed due to the building. The local public charging network here is a disgrace. It’s costing me over double the price of a normal fixed tariff to charge, whilst I have to pay Bath council to “park”, and around 7 times more expensive than a home EV tariff. That’s when one of the very few chargers isn’t in use, and it’s a 10 minute walk from home ! Currently a nightmare. All of this, whilst Bath council charge people to drive in with ULEZ, and they charge you for parking based on emissions too! There’s something like 8 public chargers in the centre of Bath, only !!

I went and sat in an M3 touring yesterday, and was in deep thought as to what they will be going for in a couple of years …

 

[Unitedleeds1919]

Wow that’s a surprise honestly up here on Leeds hybrid is the way according to these drivers

 

[Nanu]

Spookily just been speaking to a taxi driver today on this very matter.

He said all the Newcastle airport taxis that tried EV have reverted back to petrol because they are impractical especially if two drivers are car sharing as it takes too long to recharge

We keep hearing that EV sales are steadily increasing but I always wonder what percentage of these figures are private buyers and how many are businesses boosting the numbers.

 

[Mr Tidy]

We keep hearing that EV sales are steadily increasing but I always wonder what percentage of these figures are private buyers and how many are businesses boosting the numbers.

I'd love to know too, but I suspect most are business users because of the massive BIK benefit.

There isn't anything like as big an incentive for private users.

 

[pvr]

Yep, I bought it and would only buy it as a business and would not dream of getting one privately.

 

[Hilly30si]

Yep, I bought it and would only buy it as a business and would not dream of getting one privately.

Yep dead right, it’s the general consensus of all of friends and acquaintances.

 

[DevonPaul]

Spookily just been speaking to a taxi driver today on this very matter.

He said all the Newcastle airport taxis that tried EV have reverted back to petrol because they are impractical especially if two drivers are car sharing as it takes too long to recharge

We keep hearing that EV sales are steadily increasing but I always wonder what percentage of these figures are private buyers and how many are businesses boosting the numbers.

The 'multi driver' thing is going to be a problem - quite a few electric vans being used as 'pool' vehicles are having a similar problem, although often down to the muppet using it last not putting it back on charge. But it is an unusual situation, most private vehicles spend over 95% of their time parked so finding time to recharge shouldn't be a problem, finding somewhere to recharge is a bit different.

Fleet news is usually a prety good place for car sales figures, fleets tend to be the major part of the market anyway now... this is their Jan report.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/fleets-drive-new-car-market-as-ev-sales-show-sharp-decline

 

[TitanTim]

This sums it up nicely everything I dislike about electric cars and why the future is so depressing.

https://youtu.be/dpn3WkiQIPo?si=cWj7hEupvYvsO7a9

Tim.

 

[Nanu]

Anyone know someone who has tried to sell an EV second-hand?

Just wondering what the typical depreciation is after about 4/5 years

 

[DevonPaul]

Anyone know someone who has tried to sell an EV second-hand?

Just wondering what the typical depreciation is after about 4/5 years

A quick look on Autotrader will show you

I was looking at 2019 models the other week and where there were both options (egolf, ipace, some sort of merc, etc) the BEV seemed to be priced below their ICE equivalents, which surprised me as when new I thought they were quite a bit more expensive. Back then the range was a lot lower than current models, which would affect desirability.

It isn't always the case though, the electric and plug in Nero seem to still be at a premium to the diesel equivalent, as do other Korean ones.

Used BEVs are now coming in for under £10k, which brings them into the reach of a lot more people. However those people are less likely to want to spend a grand installing a charger, and generally the people buying older cars are more likely not to have offroad parking to make it easier to charge, so a smaller market, which means lower prices.