4C v Mk5 Supra v A110

[Rldee007]

Hi all,

I have sold my Z4 and I am thinking of getting something a little more special.

I want something with a small footprint and doesn't have to be mega fast, an automatic and can be used everyday if wanted to be.

I have short listed to the:
Alfa Romeo 4C,
Alpine A110,
Toyota Supra Mk5

If I can't be bothered to wait and save I will also consider a Audi TTS MK3, M2 or Abarth 124.

Has anyone had any personal experience of these cars? Ideally a cross reference would be much appreciated?

I am in no rush as if I get one of the three more expensive cars I willing to wait longer. I would be getting it as a second car and not from new. I really don't want a dark colour, silver or a grey.

 

[Pondrew]

Not had any of them but out of those would have to be the 4C for me! The most 'special' by a Country mile IMO.

Fiat is ugly, and is a Fiat!
Alpine is French, so no electrics will ever work properly.
Supra is a Z4 in a different frock.

TT is so 'unspecial' it makes a Focus look rare and interesting!

 

[Rldee007]

All the cars have their pros and cons. The Alfa is great but it hasn't the widest footprint which makes it harder to driver as a daily and also doesn't have power steering.

Alpine electrical is relatively simple so less to go wrong and to be fair modern German and JLR products are just as bad.

Supra I agree but looks better and it has been designed to be modified easier for such things as bigger and extra intecoolers. The Z4 interior is generally relatively unique compared to other BMW's.

the 124 has the fire engine which is great and very robust. I have Panda 100hp amoung my fleet and it is great. Though when I drove a 595 I felt the power band was quite narrow and you had to rev the balls off it to sound good.

TTS is relatively unique. Around by me you hardly see any of the MK3. I would have to get the bright yellow or orange with the black pack. I agree the least specials but still a good car and I am regarding it as a cheaper option.

I would also consider a F-type too.

Not had any of them but out of those would have to be the 4C for me! The most 'special' by a Country mile IMO.

Fiat is ugly, and is a Fiat!
Alpine is French, so no electrics will ever work properly.
Supra is a Z4 in a different frock.

TT is so 'unspecial' it makes a Focus look rare and interesting!

 

[brillomaster]

a lot of quite different cars there... though, theres one car notable by its absence... a porsche boxster/cayman, with a PDK box?

 

[Rldee007]

a lot of quite different cars there... though, theres one car notable by its absence... a porsche boxster/cayman, with a PDK box?

I wouldn't rule them out but I feel they are as common as TTS for more money. If I am paying that much I would want something more unique. Appreciate that these cars are arguably better overall. If the right colour, price and spec came up I would be tempted. I have driven the 718 around a track and it was so easy to have fun safely.

 

[coldel]

What about a Jag F Type?

 

[Pondrew]

What about a Jag F Type?

I would also consider a F-type too.

 

[coldel]

Ha I totally missed that!

 

[mmm-five]

Citroën Ami?

Lotus Evora (yes they come as automatics too)?

 

[Pondrew]

I'll have an Evora please! Yum yum

 

[Rldee007]

Has anyone driven or owned any of the cars I have shown initially interest in or been suggested?

 

[mmm-five]

Has anyone driven or owned any of the cars I have shown initially interest in or been suggested?

Only driven an M2 and a manual Evora...but only for a couple of hours each...and not in enough scenarios to really compare with 14 years of driving a Z4MC.

Keep looking at the Zupras too...but they've not dropped into my VFM range yet (e.g. my Z4MC was £25k at 2 years and 9000 miles old).

 

[Rldee007]

Two very different beasts.

What were your initial impressions on performance, handling and looks?

I am kind of thinking it might be worth me waiting for the prices to come down. I think the automotive bubble may burst like it has in the US, though I expect it might not be as good as it was.

£25k for a two year old car? If you take into age and inflation I expect that might be nearer £30-£35k

Has anyone driven or owned any of the cars I have shown initially interest in or been suggested?

Only driven an M2 and a manual Evora...but only for a couple of hours each...and not in enough scenarios to really compare with 14 years of driving a Z4MC.



Keep looking at the Zupras too...but they've not dropped into my VFM range yet (e.g. my Z4MC was £25k at 2 years and 9000 miles old).

 

[-Tom-]

My brother had a 4C for 2-3 years. He drove it as his daily, and regrets getting rid sorely ever since!

I spent a fair bit of time in it too, as a passenger and as a driver.

Absolutely loved the thing. Mega sense of occasion, and when you were properly on it, I can’t say I’ve driven anything quite like it. Yes the lack of steering when manoeuvring does make it a bit of a workout, but it’s not as bad as you’d read. Tbh… the initial reviews for the thing are a joke. Later reviews are more in line, a bit like with the Z4 Ms really!

As a passenger, equally as fun. The noises and intake whooshes behind your ear were mad. The radio is a joke, as were the speakers; but you don’t get it for that. Same goes for some of the plastics in there, you can’t expect much. I’d definitely consider changing the exhaust if it’s stock though.

However, the carbon sills as part of the tub, and some of the little details were mega for its price point.

There weren’t toooo many niggles as far as I can remember. The boot did actually leak and turn into a fish tank at one point (it isn’t much bigger than one anyway). There’s an issue with suspension arm ball joints at the front, and both of those needed replacing due to creaking. Otherwise it was solid!

The worst part seemed to be the dealer network. Had a bug service, and they returned it full of bird muck and didn’t actually do all the monocoque checks first time. That’s easily sorted at their age now by going to one of the decent indies.

It was such an exciting car, a baby exotic, and I loved going in it. Definitely try and drive one if you can, but it would be almost impossible to compare to something like the supra. It’s a car you’d have to love, if you were to have it over the creature comforts of the rest.

 

[Ole gits rule]

Out of your list, I would take the Alfa all day every day, having had 5 Alfas they are great to drive and cant say I had to many issues.

The Alpine is a great looking car so would also take that as a second choice,

How about a Lotus Elise / Exige - had early S2 Elise with the basic K series engine, never had a moments trouble with it, great car to driven could even get a couple of set of golf clubs in the boot (minus the woods) and it was capable of 40mpg if driven sensibly but nothing will ever out handle that car and would buy one now if I didn't live up a dirt track.

I can remember my Bro going around a roundabout at a pretty hefty speed and it just sat there like it was doing 30mph.

 

[Rldee007]

Thank you @-tom- and @ole gits rule.

Though it will be daily I aim to do 6 to 8 k a year in what ever I get. I want something different with small footprint. I have done some reading about the 4C and they generally really reliable as it is trail and test drivetrain and gear box and I expect rust should be minimum being car fibre lol. I have been told the 4C can be delicate though reliable but further reading jacking up the car to change a wheel, or brakes is pretty much the same as any car. Services are semi high compared to Alpine which seems pretty cheap.

Alfa Romeo dealer networks are rubbish. I have had a few Alfas myself I much rather take it to a good independent all day long.

The Elise is little harder to live with than the 4C I believe (slightly), again I haven't ruled them out, but how are they as a everyday car? I remember them being harder to get then a 4C. I may invest sometime looking at them.

@-Tom- did the 4C feel wide on UK roads?

I have such wonderful things about the Alpine as a TTP. Gordon Murray and Lotus used one to bench mark against their modern cars which says something. I spoke to a ex lotus Dynamics engineer for everyday spirted driving it is better than the Lotus Emira and that it is quite close to the Mk2 Elise. He also said the Evora is closer to the original Lotus DNA and is better torsionally than the Emira. He said the Elise, Cayman and M2 are better on the track then the Alpine but for everyday driving Alpine is the better, which is what you also hear in the reviews. I am unlikely to do much track driving.

I think the 4C and Alpine are tied currently. I appreciate the Supra is different beast but I like the styling and the uniqueness of it. I spoke to a friend who has a GR86 and he said in the dealership people are trading in their Supra's for the GR86 because they want something more fun.

I don't plan to get anything until next spring so I have lots of time.

 

[plenty]

I have driven a 4C for several hundred miles and owned an Evora S1 for three years.

Try both before you buy. I found fundamental flaws with the driving position on both cars: the seat on the 4C didn't recline enough, while the pedals on the Evora were too offset to the centre of the car (I think they improved this on the 4x0 cars). Having said that most owners didn't have these complaints, so maybe it was just me.

The handling on the 4C was panned at launch but the car I drove had been fettled by Alfaworks and on smooth continental roads where I tried it its dynamics were excellent, on a par with my Evora. What let the car down was its uninspiring powerplant, an uncharismatic 1.8 four fitted with an intrusive exhaust which is too loud and nasty to listen to, degrading enjoyment on long drives.

Not driven an A110 to compare but would love to try one

 

[Nictrix]

When you say you want a car with a small footprint, does this mean the size of the car?
I thought the 4C was one of the widest cars made.

 

[Rldee007]

When you say you want a car with a small footprint, does this mean the size of the car?
I thought the 4C was one of the widest cars made.

Lol yes it is wider than a Boxter and this is one of the things I am put off with it on UK roads.

 

[Ole gits rule]

My Elise was used as an everyday car doing 7 to 8K per year, had zero issues with the car at all, was great fun to drive, not the quietest on a long run but then I knew that when I bought the car, get it on a B road and all is forgiven.

With the roof on getting in & out was easy for me, there is a knack to it and when you have that, its not an issue, I would try this a few times if you test drive one just to make sure its acceptable, roof off is a doodle

Roof can be a fiddle to get on / off on the Elise but 5 minutes and sorted, keep it in garage if the weather is good, leave the roof of and use a car cover.

The car will hold a few soft bags for long weekends - few days away, shopping should be fine as long as you're not doing a months shop for a family of 5.

Insurance is not the cheapest but probably no worse than anything else on your list and the 160R was cheaper to insure than the standard car, less around means less claims so cheaper to insure, fuel is pretty decent at 40mpg driven sensibly, hard to get below 30 even driving hard in mine - not certain on the newer engines, servicing is ok via Indies, don't use the network, I used one in Hook and live in South Wales.

The car draws attention and will probably keep its value pretty well - similar to the 4C IMHO.

Oh and I would love a 4C or my Elise back but due to my knee issues and the track I live up its not possible, the Elise is probably the only car I seriously regret selling and I include my AR Brera spider which was my first new car and looked after like it was a child - yes the network is diabolical.