3.64 Diff - Quite the Diff-erence!

MACK

Veteran
 Manchester
Hi,
I know this topic often divides opinion on car forums, but I've always felt my 6 speed manual 05 3.0i SE was a little long geared for a sports car from the factory with its 3.07 Diff. This feeling was further compounded when I fitted the M spec tyres with their extra 5% of profile. This had the effect of increasing it further to something akin to the 2.93 fitted to the E46 330I.
Looking on Realoem it became apparent that BMW had probably thought something similar as the post facelift 3.0si had a 3.23 in the roadster and a more aggressive 3.46 in the coupe. I then started looking into the gearboxes themselves and realised that all the 3.0i/Si and even the M use the same basic 6 speed gearbox with the same (or virtually the same in the M's case) ratios. So bearing in mind I'm running the same size tyres as an M I thought I'd look at what ratio diff that uses, it has a 3.62 which is basically the same as the prefacelift auto 2.5 and the 3.0si autos 3.64.
So I thought sod it, for a £100 or so from a breakers and a hours fitting I'd try a 3.64, at the end of the day its easy enough to reverse.
It took a bit of finding but i eventually found one, fitted it and the cars certainly pepped up, much more lively now and more akin to what it really should of been from the factory.
For anyone thinking this is a bit of an extreme mod, its worth bearing in mind that after accounting for the different tyre profiles between the M spec and standard, a 3.64 diff with M spec tyres gives basically the same gearing as the 3.46 does in the manual coupe with standard sizes and I've yet to see someone complaining that a Z4 3.0SI Coupe or a M is too short in the gearing.
The only detriment to this mod is my 6th is now the equivalent of what 5th used to be, but again its only the equivalent of what the prefacelift 5 speed 2.5i are running from the factory anyway and its really not that intrusive. done a good 30 mile stint on the motorway now with cruise on and at a decent pace its fine, doing about 400rpm more than it used to for a given speed.
 
Don’t you now find 1st far too short?

Used to think 1st in my old 3.0 was perfect, current //M seems too low geared there although could be down to the extra 100 ponies
 
Couldn't agree more regarding the gearing, and this is something I've wanted to do since I bought my car. Thanks for sharing :)
 

I always felt it was a tad long myself, especially when mine increased from doing 33.5mph @6,000rpm to 35mph with the M spec tyres on. What encouraged me to do this mod was the fact that using the tyres I have a 3.64 only gave me the same gearing as a manual coupe (29.5mph at 6,000rpm) has from the factory. I suspect your right about the extra 100bhp making the M feel like its got a really short 1st.
Peter-E36 said:
Couldn't agree more regarding the gearing, and this is something I've wanted to do since I bought my car. Thanks for sharing :)
buzyg said:
Ideal solution to today's lazy geared cars. :thumbsup:
It does liven things up and make the car feel much more alive, more like a sports car should be. I suspect the reason the car was geared the way it was from the factory is simply down to product placement. Allowing BMW head room for increased performance on future versions as came to fruition with the si roadster and particularly the coupe. Then there's the all important 0-60 time and getting there with out needing to change to third. This explains why the prefacelift 3.0i se and a facelift 3.0si coupe have virtually the same 0-60 despite near enough weighing the same and the coupe having extra power and shorter gearing. The coupe requires a change to 3rd just before it hits 60mph.

Peter if you (or anyone else for that matter) are considering this my advice would be if your running standard 255/35/18 rears to source a 3.46 diff instead of the 3.64 I have. The good news is they're usually a little bit easier to find being fitted to the more plentiful prefacelift 3.0i autos as well as the 3.0si manual coupes. In addition they're also fitted to some E46 models such as 323/5i auto.
If your running M tyres then use a 3.64 like i did, they're found in prefacelift 2.5i autos as well as 3.0si autos (both coupe and roadster).

Like I said earlier the biggest drawback for me is that your 6th effective becomes what your 5th used to be, but that said its only the same as what Coupe/M owners/5 Speed Zeds have from the factory anyway.
 
I've been down the same route with my Z3MC and changed the diff and found that the results were illusory. When it came to the data-logging there was no real difference, so I went back to the OEM diff. Changing the diff ratio just increases the "urgency" in gear shifting and for a road car there's no real need for that, even on the twisties. For your cruising speed it just increases RPM and fuel consumption.

For £100 and if you do the swap yourself, it's certainly worth a try but I bet you'll go back to your OEM diff in a while. :driving:
 
Engineering Explained did this with his S2000 and logged some real acceleration improvements, just depends on how much the difference is.
 
I'm guessing the standard 3.0 runs a 3.07 diff??? Would the change to a 3.46 make enough difference to acceleration. I'm still trying to get my head around diffs and tyre sizes. :headbang:
 
I’ve had the stock 3.07, a 3.64 off an auto car, and now a 3.46 with Quaife. I run 265/35/18 in the rear... the diameter is between a stock 3.0i and M.

3.46 is perfect IMHO. 3.64 is great too, but a little short for my application. I’m supercharged at ~9 psi. I preferred the 3.64 when I was at 6 psi.

A lightweight flywheel enhances the fun even more. Centrifugal supercharger + short gearing + ltw flywheel is all kinds of fun in this chassis.
 
The lightweight or SMF is definitely happening when it's time for a clutch. As for the 3.46, is there any particular car to get one from, I see there are different size cases???
I assume later spec diffs (off the cars prefixed with F wouldn't fit - seen one going cheap)
 
did a diff swap on an only e46 328i track car, standard car was quite lethargic with a 5 speed gearbox and a 2.93 diff. picked up a 3.38 diff for cheaper, which made the car so much better! 2nd ran to 58 instead of 65, and 3rd ran to 85 instead of 90-something. just felt so much better out of slower corners.

sure the cruising rpm was like, 200rpm higher in 5th, but more than made up for it in the lower gears.

I'd definitely do the swap on my z4 if the chance came along - a shorter diff would compensate nicely for the poor vanos performance in the midrange, and its cheaper too!
 
LittleZ4 said:
I'm guessing the standard 3.0 runs a 3.07 diff??? Would the change to a 3.46 make enough difference to acceleration. I'm still trying to get my head around diffs and tyre sizes. :headbang:

It should, my 3.64 gives me virtually the same gearing I would have with a 3.46 if I wasn't running the M tyre sizes.
 
LittleZ4 said:
The lightweight or SMF is definitely happening when it's time for a clutch. As for the 3.46, is there any particular car to get one from, I see there are different size cases???
I assume later spec diffs (off the cars prefixed with F wouldn't fit - seen one going cheap)
E85 prefacelift 3.0i autos as well as the E86 3.0si manual coupes. In addition they're also fitted to some E46 models such as 323/5i auto. With an E46 diff though you may have to change the flanges to match and also swap the back cover as the z4 one is finned for better cooling. The diff is a BMW type 188 which features on a number of other models such as X3. I've read they should fit but I could confirm this

pokeybritches said:
I’ve had the stock 3.07, a 3.64 off an auto car, and now a 3.46 with Quaife. I run 265/35/18 in the rear... the diameter is between a stock 3.0i and M.

3.46 is perfect IMHO. 3.64 is great too, but a little short for my application. I’m supercharged at ~9 psi. I preferred the 3.64 when I was at 6 psi.

A lightweight flywheel enhances the fun even more. Centrifugal supercharger + short gearing + ltw flywheel is all kinds of fun in this chassis.

I do agree that on standard tyres the 3.64 would be a bit too short. Interesting what you say about the flywheel, do you feel you miss the dual mass at all in terms of smoothness?
 
I had a SMF in my old Alfa GT 1.9td, previous had an Alfa GT 1.9td with a DMF. I didn't notice much difference at all between the two. Only slightly more vibration on pulling away.
Time to start looking for a new diff then :driving:. Im running 255/35/18 on a 9.5j rim. 3.46 sufficiently good for that? (I may increase the tyre size when its time to replace them)
 
MACK said:
I do agree that on standard tyres the 3.64 would be a bit too short. Interesting what you say about the flywheel, do you feel you miss the dual mass at all in terms of smoothness?

The only thing I dislike is the chatter at idle. I installed the SMF expecting reduced driveability, and I was pleasantly surprised that the car became more intuitive. Most of the slop in the driveline has been eliminated, and the rubber band effect has been reduced to a minimum. Rev matching is easier, and the effect of not getting the revs quite right is easier on the car and doesn’t upset the balance as much as with a DMF. The SMF has enabled quicker shifts too.
 
pokeybritches said:
MACK said:
I do agree that on standard tyres the 3.64 would be a bit too short. Interesting what you say about the flywheel, do you feel you miss the dual mass at all in terms of smoothness?

The only thing I dislike is the chatter at idle. I installed the SMF expecting reduced driveability, and I was pleasantly surprised that the car became more intuitive. Most of the slop in the driveline has been eliminated, and the rubber band effect has been reduced to a minimum. Rev matching is easier, and the effect of not getting the revs quite right is easier on the car and doesn’t upset the balance as much as with a DMF. The SMF has enabled quicker shifts too.

I may well have to consider this the the time comes.
 
Well had this on for about a month now and I think its a keeper. I wouldn't want to go any shorter on a road going car than this 3.64 with the M tyre sizes and would probably switch it for the 3.46 if I reverted back to standard tyre profiles to give the same overall ratio. Like I said earlier, all I've basically done is match up the gearing to that of a E86 3.0 or a E85/6M and I've never heard any of their owners complaining the overall gearing was a bit short. It does also go along way to explaining a few comments I've read on various forums where folks who moved from pre facelift 3.0i cars to later 3.0SI cars, particularly Coupes felt they had a lot more urgency about them (extra 30bhp doesn't hurt either!).

The car definitely feels a lot quicker now, whether the stop watch would agree is another matter and would entirely rely on what your measuring 0-50-/60/70/100 etc because of where the gear changes now fall. But in the end for me in a road going car perception is reality and all that and its been well worth it and at such low cost and ease its definitely worth a go for anyone else considering going down this route.
 
Quick update for any thinking about this. I'm still loving this mod over 2 months in now. It really does liven things up and makes the car feel much more eager. They really should of come like this from the factory.............oh wait the M's and 3.0si coupe did!
 
Hi all,
Just chiming in on this as my e85 3.0 blew its diff at the track recently so I'm looking at swapping it out with the 3.46 from an e46 330i.

Before I run out and grab one, will this fit?
Cheers
 
All,

Has anyone else done this diff swap to a 3.64 with stock wheels/tire profile?

I'm contemplating doing the diff swap on my 3.0si / roadster / 6MT. I'm debating between the 3.64 and the 3.46 with a lean towards the 3.64. My "complaint" about the 3.0si is that acceleration to ~60 MPH feels sluggish.

When I'm in 3rd gear, 3K RPM / between 60-80MPH the engine/car has such urgency that small pushes on the pedal almost get the car to leap forward which is an intoxicating feeling. Below 3K the car feels sleepy to me so I figured this change will put the engine more in the upper RPM power band more quickly.

Currently I have stock wheels (18") and tires and if I make any changes, I might actually go down to 17" for slight ride improvement, lower wheel mass and better tire options.

I've played around with online gearing calculator (https://www.blocklayer.com/rpm-gear) entering in all my data with the 3.64 and it seems like I'd go from ~2800 RPM @ 70 MH to about 3100 RPM @ 70 MPH. This doesn't seem horrible.
 
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