3.0SI vs Impreza & evo

[un1eash]

Yes...The astra GSi standard is a 2.0 turbo charged Z20 engine with 197bhp. But this one doesn't even have the standard block in it. There isn't much that is standard.

And there are even more plans for it...

But...... Why?

Why not, my mate had a R5 GT that would do a 12 second 1/4 mile, now he owns a Rx7 that can do a 9 second 1/4 mile.

 

[Z4//MMY]

Yes, but a starting point of an Rx7 is a very very good idea. A light weight, bespoke, 2 seater, with an excellent chassis, great balance and an unbelievably good engine.

But to modify a Vauxhall Astra.....?!?! Whats the point. Just save ur money and buy a decent car to start with.

 

[Lucy]

Yes why not. It's something different! The car cost 7k and there's been about 10k spent on engine mods, so it's still cheaper than a Z4 and many other things that are a hell of a lot slower than it. He enjoys doing it, takes pride in doing the work himself not just paying someone saying i want 400bhp here's some cash, and enjoys taking it to the track and drag strips, and it's a personal achievment to have been asked to do a spread for Total Vauxhall magazine.
It's thought to be one of the fastest Vauxhall's in the country which is something to smile about. Considering it still has a full interior unlike most of these highly modified engined cars that you see that are stripped out to save weight. And it's used as a daily driver which is also something to smile about, and because it's had such a good remap on the ecu it get's better mpg than my 3.0si!! So all is good

 

[bulldog5046]

because a normal looking family car that will leave cars like the Z4 for dead are interesting and within budget for most people who have an interest in motor mechanics.

reading this thread really makes me feel there is some BMW snobbery going on....

 

[Lucy]

because a normal looking family car that will leave cars like the Z4 for dead are interesting and within budget for most people who have an interest in motor mechanics.

reading this thread really makes me feel there is some BMW snobbery going on....

Exactly! Couldn't have put it better to be honest

 

[un1eash]

Yes, but a starting point of an Rx7 is a very very good idea. A light weight, bespoke, 2 seater, with an excellent chassis, great balance and an unbelievably good engine.

But to modify a Vauxhall Astra.....?!?! Whats the point. Just save ur money and buy a decent car to start with.

Rx7 is not a very very good idea unless you have very very deep pockets. His car was bought for 10k 3-4 years ago and i can bet he spends more then that year running it. Now that it has 600bhp+ it goes through engines, especially oil seals like anything. Ive seen him destroy a diff when launching, twist a prop, blow the engine etc.

 

[PawnSacrifice]

because a normal looking family car that will leave cars like the Z4 for dead are interesting and within budget for most people who have an interest in motor mechanics.

reading this thread really makes me feel there is some BMW snobbery going on....

See, I'd always thought there was little to no point in spending a heap of money modding cars, why not just get a new / bigger / better one! However, having joined this forum I am engaging in activities that will leave a lot of Porsche drivers wondering why I don't just sell the car and put the money I'm spending on bits toward a 911!

Reference the Evo... I love the Evo X but interior isn't great and am ashamed to admit I probably wouldn't drive anything with all those bits stuck on! (always like to think that I'd buy a car on merit rather than what people thought). Guy at work has an Evo 8 with bits done, it is awesome! It is very very quick... don't race it, you'll only make it angry

 

[cj10jeeper]

I love it. The idea of taking a sensible looking 4 door family saloon and making it exceptional, especially when it's done as a hobby and remains a daily drive.

In the 4x4 world that I play in I care not what badge anything carries, but it it gets to the top of the hill befre me then on the day it was a better combination of driver and vehicle and I take my hat off.

 

[Z4//MMY]

Its not BMW snobbery... the last car I owned was a Mazda :wink:

Its more engineering snobbery! Im an automotive engineer and I work with the OE manufacturer to design, qualify and homologate new engines.... I know what goes into creating a high power engine...... that will work, be durable and SAFE.

My point of view is that if I want xxxbhp I will buy a car designed to work with that power.... a car I know wont destroy itself and maybe its occupants...a car that has the brakes, suspension, AND CHASSIS to take xxxbhp.....

I am not impressed with the normal looking family car that will leave cars like the Z4 for dead.... whats the point? if you want small family hatchback get 1, if you want a sports car, get 1.... a high power output does make a car a sports car....

Lucy... just out of interest, do you know what BMEP, max turbo speed, and compressor outlest temperatures its running at?

 

[sk93]

Hey Z4//MMY,

Have you got a spare 80k you can give me to buy a Dodge Viper?
I really want a car like that, but I can't afford it, and if I could, I would need a second car as a daily drive too.. so perhaps we could make it 90k?
Actuaclly, scratch that. I've got 10k myself, so I'll spend 4k on a decent daily drive car, then bung an extra 5k on it to make it as fast as the viper and as exhilerating to drive, and waste the last 1k on insuring it.

Not everyone can afford the car of their dreams, so we have to settle with what we can get


But you raise an interesting and valid point

a high power output does make a car a sports car....

Care to define exactly what does?
I mean, in the true sense of a sports car, the Z4r isn't one. Neither is the Z4MR, because clearly the chassis isn't as tight as the coupe version... right?
I would be willing to bet money that a Evo 6 would thrash the arse out of a Z4 (can't comment on a //M, but defo the 3.0) around an english track... especially one like Castle Combe. I'd also bet that a well balanced Astra GSI would be an interesting match.

I agree that you can't just dump a powerful turbo into the engine bay and claim you have a great car.. but if you've got a set of decent shocks, springs (all set up correctly), anti-roll bars, an upgraded set of calipers, discs, and master/slave cylinder, then you're going to have a pretty decent vehicle, reagardless of what you started with.
And yes, the Chassis plays an important part in this, but isn't the Astra a touring car and therefore a pretty good platform anyway?
It certainly has a more sporty pedigree than the cars we all drive around in...


If you're smart when modifying your car (and I don't claim that everyone who does, is... not by a long way!) you look into each major modification in depth.
you learn the SAFE operating parameters of everything; camshafts, pistons, valve springs, bearings, oil temp, oil pressure, water temp, water pressure, and so on... and you work out if the mod you're going to do will push them to UNSAFE values.. in which case you either alter the mod, or change out the parts as required.
There are a hundreds of tuning companies out there, and "I've" not found one yet that wouldn't be happy to talk to you about your car and planned mods.. offering advice and even advising against certain mods. Sure, there are going to be a few that are idiots, but that's why you do your reasearch in the first place..

but isn't this all off topic?


EDIT: and ps.. it's not engineering snobbery at all. It's pigheadedness towards modified cars.. (and I don't mean you directly. Just in general).
I absolutely HATE chavs and they're 1.2 corsas with massive exhausts, wiper jet lights and neons who think it's brilliant to sit on your arse to try and get you to race..
I absolutely love cleverly modified cars, that have been thought about and designed from an indea and with passion.
There is a massive difference between the two

 

[Bradders75]

Its not BMW snobbery... the last car I owned was a Mazda :wink:

Its more engineering snobbery! Im an automotive engineer and I work with the OE manufacturer to design, qualify and homologate new engines.... I know what goes into creating a high power engine...... that will work, be durable and SAFE.

My point of view is that if I want xxxbhp I will buy a car designed to work with that power.... a car I know wont destroy itself and maybe its occupants...a car that has the brakes, suspension, AND CHASSIS to take xxxbhp.....

I am not impressed with the normal looking family car that will leave cars like the Z4 for dead.... whats the point? if you want small family hatchback get 1, if you want a sports car, get 1.... a high power output does make a car a sports car....

Lucy... just out of interest, do you know what BMEP, max turbo speed, and compressor outlest temperatures its running at?

Can't say I've heard of many cars of this ilk 'destroying itself and maybe its occupants', especially if done properly with uprated suspension and brakes etc. I take your point that the chassis can't be uprated but I'd be interested to know exactly what problems lie ahead for the owner because of this? He's hardly the first to run a big power hatch back and certainly won't be the last...

It wouldn't be my way to spend the money because I'd be too concerned with insuring a highly modified car, the depreciation of something out of the norm and then trying to sell it afterwards. It's not my money though so fair play to the guy for leaving the mainstream and having a bit of fun.

As a Q car to go and rub a few noses in the dirt, I think it's utterly fantastic. God life would be hellishly boring if every car was factory and performed 'as expected'...

 

[sk93]

Yes, but a starting point of an Rx7 is a very very good idea. A light weight, bespoke, 2 seater, with an excellent chassis, great balance and an unbelievably good engine.

But to modify a Vauxhall Astra.....?!?! Whats the point. Just save ur money and buy a decent car to start with.

Rx7 is not a very very good idea unless you have very very deep pockets. His car was bought for 10k 3-4 years ago and i can bet he spends more then that year running it. Now that it has 600bhp+ it goes through engines, especially oil seals like anything. Ive seen him destroy a diff when launching, twist a prop, blow the engine etc.

+1 to this story.. even when NOT running massive bhp.

the car handles better than any I've driven.. but it was a nightmare in every other respect.
small, crampt, oilburner, seal-wrecker, UNRELIABLE turbos, expensive parts, hard to find experts, crap cooling (both oil, water and air)
You're looking at changing the oil every 2-4k to start with, and the apex seals every 40-60k.

Yep.. great car if you have the money. If not, crap car and avoid it.

 

[Z4//MMY]

What makes a sports car?

In my opinion, well designed, balanced chassis, 50:50 weight distribution, front or mid engined engined, rear wheel drive. Low and central centre of gravity, Good power to weight ratio (hard to define, straight line speed is not everything), LSD..... Sharp high capacity brakes and double wishbone suspension.
But thats just my opinion......

I dont believe the Z4M is all those things.... but it still manages a very impressive lap time on the top gear power laps (not a great benchmark but a fairly large list to compare to).... I cant afford a "Viper" (<-- not that Id want 1 either) so the Z4//M will do for now!

The comments about the RX7 are kind of backing up my argument...... the OEM designed and qualified the car to run at a certain output... the car has been modified to run at an output it was never designed to run at hence....... :roll:

I have only come across a few tuning companies that have the budget, knowledge, facilities, time and experience to enable them to make any components or systems that are built and tested to the same quality and durability levels that the OEM can.

Lastly.... Im not saying people should not modify their cars.... Im not saying people shouldnt enjoy putting their own mark on their pride and joy.... Personally, I wouldnt but.......Im just taking the pi55 at using an Astra (or an Opel Cadet lol) as a start point!

So, stop being all serious people and take my initial comment how it was meant..... a little light pi55 taking

 

[un1eash]

What makes a sports car?

In my opinion, well designed, balanced chassis, 50:50 weight distribution, front or mid engined engined, rear wheel drive. Low and central centre of gravity, Good power to weight ratio (hard to define, straight line speed is not everything), LSD..... Sharp high capacity brakes and double wishbone suspension.
But thats just my opinion......

Z4 = Fail
Mk1 MR2 = Fail
Swift Sport = Fail

Thought i had a winner with my MR2 but no LSD

 

[sk93]

The comments about the RX7 are kind of backing up my argument...... the OEM designed and qualified the car to run at a certain output... the car has been modified to run at an output it was never designed to run at hence....... :roll:

I was refering to the OEM twinturbo mk3 RX7.. it's basically an oil sieve on wheels.

I have only come across a few tuning companies that have the budget, knowledge, facilities, time and experience to enable them to make any components or systems that are built and tested to the same quality and durability levels that the OEM can.

NISMO, HKS, KONI, Mines, GReddy, MoTeC, Apexi, Mongoose, Spax, Blitz, EBC, Ferodo, Tarox, Janspeed, Scorpion, Eibach, Forge, Bailey, JeTex, K&N, EBC, Black Diamond, Powerflex... just to name a few I've dealt with who have exceptional products and are incredibly knowledgeable (when you speak to the right person).
I think if HKS had charged for the time we spent talking through things for my 300, i'd be a very, very poor man

So, stop being all serious people and take my initial comment how it was meant..... a little light pi55 taking

sorry.. misread the tone of the first post

 

[csmith319]

The Lotus Evora doesn't have an LSD... in fact I don't think the Elise does either... prob not sports cars then.

 

[a11y]

What makes a sports car?

In my opinion, well designed, balanced chassis, 50:50 weight distribution, front or mid engined engined, rear wheel drive. Low and central centre of gravity, Good power to weight ratio (hard to define, straight line speed is not everything), LSD..... Sharp high capacity brakes and double wishbone suspension.
But thats just my opinion......

Forgetting the 911, are we? :wink:

Personally I quite like Impreza's, but only in standard form and only the older ones. It's a shame in the respect that the image associated (well, from my point of view) is Impreza's have become an ultimate chav/ned wagon. I've got much respect for proper, mechanically modified ones producing big power, but the majority are just idiotic body-kitted "wannabe-dealer" cars. Give me a nice standard RB5 and I'd be happy

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/largepic.asp?i=1344435&noPics=3&imgsrv=1&current=1&make=SUBARU&model=Impreza

 

[Dreamer]

If i was 21 and had a car with 400 odd horsepower i would think i was the nuts, even if it was an astra Mind you im not 21 anymore.

A proper sportscar is pretty debateable really, im betting that astra could run rings around a lot of good 'sportscars' on a track if the suspension has seen some work. Ive seen plenty of fwd cars do just that on a track given driver commitment.

Scoobies and Evo's are a different league of car to Z4, impressive handling and performance doesnt even cover it. Mindbending is more like it when you drive one. I can only speak about an evo as thats the only one i've driven and it was ridiculous. Losing speed for a roundabout simply isnt needed

Turbos - I love them. Some of my previous cars had them + remaps + intercoolers etc, but you cant help feel its a bit like cheating.

 

[PCBung]

I thought that anything over 280BHP or so was too much for a FWD car? How does the 450+BHP astra cope?

 

[bulldog5046]

450+ FWD isnt as bad as you might think, the issues are with low speed acceleration, once you are upto 40ish you dont really get problems.

i was taken for a spin in a friends 450bhp Fiat Coupe and it goes from 60-120 in the blok of an eye, its utterly mind boggling performance.