3.0si to M
- Thread starter Simon 3.2M
- Start date
Simon 3.2M
Senior member
Simon 3.2M
Senior member
tomscott said:The E46 M3 and E86 Z4Ms are the same platform but man they are very different.
Both excellent cars and would have either again. Depends what you want. With the M3 you cant get away from the fact its a fast saloon not a sports car although does a decent job of bridging the gap. The Z4M is rawer in all aspects and is no where near as refined, compliant or as comfortable. Mostly because of the fact the seats are over the rear axel and you sit so low, in the E86 the ride is very similar to the ride in the M3 but in the rear seats. In the E46 its far more comfortable as you sit almost in the middle but that also means you dont get the same feel.
Some people love or hate those differences. The E86 took me a while to get used to but loved it.
You can see these things as positives and negatives. The e46 m3 is one of my fav BMWs of all time but the Z4M is a very close second.
Paper to real life is vastly different.
That being said I would have an E46 M3 for family duties and an E86 Z4M for the weekend all day long. Great combo imo...
The two I had.
BMW Z4M Coupe, Ulswater Boat house, Cumbria by Tom Scott, on Flickr
BMW E46 M3, Alston, Hartside, Cumbria, CSL wheels by Tom Scott, on Flickr
Thats if 911s didnt exist...
Porsche 996 Carrera 4 S Convertible, Lowther Castle, Penrith, Cumbria by Tom Scott, on Flickr
Porsche 996 Carrera 4 S Convertible, Lowther Castle, Penrith, Cumbria by Tom Scott, on Flickr
TBH I was always anti the roadster, now im a bit older I appreciate it much more and for the cost difference the M coupe is gorgeous which to me is the main draw. That being said it is super claustrophobic, boomy and if anything the aural experience is no where close to the roadster. I didnt even know how much noise the coupe made until I was photographing mine out the back of another vehicle with my dad driving, the induction noise is very loud outside the car.
BMW Z4M Coupe, Silver Grey, CSL wheels by Tom Scott, on Flickr
I dont think the coupe is so much better that it asks 3-40% more than the equivalent roady. If you want an M the roady is the bargain atm and like the Z3M will take longer to get there but will certainly appreciate too.
Status said:
Are you planning on getting the bearing shells checked?
You cant have the bearings checked. If you go to the effort to have them checked you might as well have them replaced as they are quite a job to get to.
The bearings themselves are cheap its the cost of the labour. This is why I would suggest getting a few things done in that general area, engine bolts, engine mounts etc as it means you wont have to pay for a mechanics time to do this again as they are all in the same area.
You can have an oil analysis to check for metal and that will tell you what is wearing.
What you have to be aware of is that it wont show the entire life of the bearing just a small snapshot in that space of time since the oil was changed. Its a good idea to get it done after an oil change in the service schedule, say the 2 yearly it will give you a better idea over an amount of miles, than say having the oil changed then 6 months having it analysed because its not a long enough to show wear unless you have done the allocate 14k in that 6 months which is fairly unlikely.
Anyway its not that much of a worry I would have it done if your car has over 100k just for your own piece of mind and as preventative maintenance. They are designed to take the hammer but they are wearable items.
The bearings themselves are cheap its the cost of the labour. This is why I would suggest getting a few things done in that general area, engine bolts, engine mounts etc as it means you wont have to pay for a mechanics time to do this again as they are all in the same area.
You can have an oil analysis to check for metal and that will tell you what is wearing.
What you have to be aware of is that it wont show the entire life of the bearing just a small snapshot in that space of time since the oil was changed. Its a good idea to get it done after an oil change in the service schedule, say the 2 yearly it will give you a better idea over an amount of miles, than say having the oil changed then 6 months having it analysed because its not a long enough to show wear unless you have done the allocate 14k in that 6 months which is fairly unlikely.
Anyway its not that much of a worry I would have it done if your car has over 100k just for your own piece of mind and as preventative maintenance. They are designed to take the hammer but they are wearable items.
Simon 3.2M
Senior member
Wise words Tom, an analysis which being a good indicator, is indeed only a snap shot. It is true that its only sense to change them whislt they are being inspected - my indy suggests race shells.
My car has a 100k so this is something I will save up and get done next year before the car is put back on the road after winter. They are quoting 1k to do them so hopefully this is a sensible price.
My car has a 100k so this is something I will save up and get done next year before the car is put back on the road after winter. They are quoting 1k to do them so hopefully this is a sensible price.
1k sounds the right ball park, i would be inclined to get the rest done at the same time, saves time money and the car will feel far better on new mounts etc.
It depends really. As far as I know the tolerances are very small as it is. The Z4M got the updated bearings as these were the main issue of early E46 M3s and late Z3Ms.
I would be inclined to use the exact same bearings, there is a lot of information on third party bearings but there is also very little of long term information on them. Ive heard all sorts of pros and cons, its hard to determine what is reliable and what isnt.
At the end of the day these engines are very reliable with the original bearings and really if your car has got to 100k problem free... I would replace them like for like.
I dont really know what the benefit of putting race bearings is to a road car. Replacing them for OEM parts will also give piece of mind
Just my opinion obviously.
It depends really. As far as I know the tolerances are very small as it is. The Z4M got the updated bearings as these were the main issue of early E46 M3s and late Z3Ms.
I would be inclined to use the exact same bearings, there is a lot of information on third party bearings but there is also very little of long term information on them. Ive heard all sorts of pros and cons, its hard to determine what is reliable and what isnt.
At the end of the day these engines are very reliable with the original bearings and really if your car has got to 100k problem free... I would replace them like for like.
I dont really know what the benefit of putting race bearings is to a road car. Replacing them for OEM parts will also give piece of mind
Just my opinion obviously.
Tbh,
If the car has done 100k and there is no proof of them being done before, I would get them done ASAP.
I believe the following garages are renowned for undertaking this sort of work, (it might be worth giving them a call to see whether you could get a better deal):
Munich Legends
ETA Motorsport
Redish Motorsport
CPC Amersham
Good luck
If the car has done 100k and there is no proof of them being done before, I would get them done ASAP.
I believe the following garages are renowned for undertaking this sort of work, (it might be worth giving them a call to see whether you could get a better deal):
Munich Legends
ETA Motorsport
Redish Motorsport
CPC Amersham
Good luck
R60BBA said:
There's not much point in scaremongering, lots of S54s have made much higher mileage without issue. Its something to have in mind but I wouldn't be fretting over it. There are very very few S54 failures on bearings, its usually a multitude of issues due to heavy use like track days etc
These cars are 12+ years old and in the 7 years ive been on this forum I can think of 3 examples of bearing failure, fairly sure 2 were used as track cars.
Simon 3.2M
Senior member
I know of one that was cained to within an inch of its life, even when cold! As you've mentioned Tom, engines have had damaged bearings at 40k some tracked cars, fine at 150k. It's something to consider and worth doing that's for sure. The bottom line is they are a car that some owners don't have a clue about and who just put fuel in and drive.
Worth doing at some point that's for sure. .
Worth doing at some point that's for sure. .
Advising someone to change their rod bearings because their engine has 100k on the clock is not scaremongering buddy.
The point is that Simon does not know how the previous owners treated the car. Whether they let the car warm up before giving full throttle or whether they used proper 10w60 oil.
There have been cases of full service history engine having worn rod bearings with just 28k on the clock. (Ofc this is rare) but the common consensus is that bearings should be changed around the 80k mark.
You’re better off replacing the bearings for peace of mind than taking a risk and potentially ending up with engine failure.
The point is that Simon does not know how the previous owners treated the car. Whether they let the car warm up before giving full throttle or whether they used proper 10w60 oil.
There have been cases of full service history engine having worn rod bearings with just 28k on the clock. (Ofc this is rare) but the common consensus is that bearings should be changed around the 80k mark.
You’re better off replacing the bearings for peace of mind than taking a risk and potentially ending up with engine failure.
Bodyboarder
Active member
.... and when would people recommend changing the cam bolts ? Also heard these can cause issues ,
Thanks
Thanks
Have to agree with R60BBA here. It's a known weak point and it seems it's down to luck whether they go at a lower mileage or last 200k! Definitely sensible to change at around the ton mark if you don't know how it's been driven/warmed up etc before your ownership, I bought mine on 100k and got them done straight away, just for peace of mind. They were actually in very good condition but it's done and prevention is always better than cure.
£1k is a lot cheaper than an engine rebuild!
£1k is a lot cheaper than an engine rebuild!
It is worth having it done but ASAP, nope. As I said in my post. it wouldn't stop me enjoying the car until the winter.
Most have them changed and find they aren't close to failing, which is why its worth having an oil analysis. If its got good service history from BMW and specialists then why the wrong oil would be used is beyond me.
If the car has been abused then the bearings are just one item on the list of concern its not a fix all solution.
Most have them changed and find they aren't close to failing, which is why its worth having an oil analysis. If its got good service history from BMW and specialists then why the wrong oil would be used is beyond me.
If the car has been abused then the bearings are just one item on the list of concern its not a fix all solution.
Re the rod bearings , lets not stir the hornets nest scaring a majority of owners who enjoy their ZMs for weekend treats & rarely see the rev counter over 5500/6K or speedo over the designated limits , for these owners even on high miles its nonsense to assume impending doom for their bottom end 
& id love to see a freshly replaced set inspected again after the first 12k / 15k covered ? Would they be unmarked ?
I would imagine each & every S54 no matter the miles or use would show signs of wear to some extent , there will always be worse case scenarios & id wager that those odds increase with dirty oil , cheap oil , wrong oil , low oil , high revving from cold but for me the biggest killer is extreme heat cycle from max speeds / max revs for prolonged time , Ie trackday use for the ones that aren't prepped properly with fresh oil beforehand , correct level & knowing when you've cooked it .
& id love to see a freshly replaced set inspected again after the first 12k / 15k covered ? Would they be unmarked ? I would imagine each & every S54 no matter the miles or use would show signs of wear to some extent , there will always be worse case scenarios & id wager that those odds increase with dirty oil , cheap oil , wrong oil , low oil , high revving from cold but for me the biggest killer is extreme heat cycle from max speeds / max revs for prolonged time , Ie trackday use for the ones that aren't prepped properly with fresh oil beforehand , correct level & knowing when you've cooked it .
Status said:
6 litres & the only stuff id use is Millers CFS 10w60 , https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Millers-CFS-10w-60-Competition-Full-Synthetic-Engine-Oil-10w60-5-LITRES/162390784528?epid=28017018433&hash=item25cf3eba10:g:ke8AAOSw32lYnap6
i know many think oil is oil as long as correct grade is used but imo they are far from all the same in terms of cold start qualities & resistance to extreme heat .