3.0si remap - The Results (page 4) - Update

[Steve84N]

If you can't feel a 20bhp+ increase then you didn't need a remap in the first place as you weren't using all the power. Making 4bhp on a Fiesta isn't worth £300 but this would be if it produced the claimed results.

Looks like you can get your money back if you don't like it so I say give it a try. Most of the other posts regurgitate standard internet wisdom but nobody has actually got any experience...

 

[speed12]

As above 20bhp is not necessarily to be sniffed at. Granted its not a 20% hike like most diesels get but if combined with induction mods etc then perhaps you could eek it out to 25bhp? Pushing the total towards 280ish bhp. Might not make much difference off the lights but it might mean a better smoother power delivery across the range.

 

[coupedan]

Ed..

Where are you looking to get yours mapped?
You'll have to let me know how it goes as I'm interested in the results

 

[Ed Doe]

Hi Dan, it's a guy I know from my Renaultsport days - he's based down in Verwood, he's doing me a custom map, I'd requested quite a few bits - removal of the torque limiter in 1st, raided rev limiter, modification to the throttle maps in non sport and sport modes and small modifications to the torque curve etc. I think anything more than 10 hp gain is extremely optimistic for an n/a engine being remapped, I'm looking for improvements I'm drivability to suit how I like to drive the car....

 

[coupedan]

Hi Dan, it's a guy I know from my Renaultsport days - he's based down in Verwood, he's doing me a custom map, I'd requested quite a few bits - removal of the torque limiter in 1st, raided rev limiter, modification to the throttle maps in non sport and sport modes and small modifications to the torque curve etc. I think anything more than 10 hp gain is extremely optimistic for an n/a engine being remapped, I'm looking for improvements I'm drivability to suit how I like to drive the car....

Yeah that's fair enough.. That soft rev limiter does annoy me sometimes as I feel the power drops off after ~6250.

How comes you want to remove the torque limiter in 1st? I feel that it already struggles with traction under hard acceleration in 1st.. surely this will enhance that?

Do you find that for example around 3500-4000RPM in 3rd and you go to press on, it feels a bit flat?

 

[Mike6]

In reply to Ed, its all a matter of taste. If the re map does all the things you mention for a discerning drive why wouldn't a manufacturer do this in the first place or offer it as an extra. Back street tuning firms are all very well but I would prefer to keep a car as standard

 

[Ed Doe]

In reply to Ed, its all a matter of taste. If the re map does all the things you mention for a discerning drive why wouldn't a manufacturer do this in the first place or offer it as an extra. Back street tuning firms are all very well but I would prefer to keep a car as standard

Completely agree - it is all a matter of taste, and fair play if you aren't interested in remapping. However, whilst I agree there are many different people of wildly varying experience and professionalism who will offer you a remap, the reason for BMW or any manufacturer not offering this is manifold;

1. BMW will design the car with certain tolerances, to allow for all sorts of drivers. There are those who will buy the car and have no mechanical sympathy at all, will redline the car everywhere from cold, ignore service indications etc. In order to mitigate against mechanical failure caused by misuse or 'harsher than intended' use, BMW or any manufacturer will seek to build in some tolerance on the level of tune of the engine, to account for all types of driver. This inevitably means it will be dialled-back deliberately from the factory.
2. As the 3.0si in this instance is not the top-model in the range, it will fit within BMWs market model. It was originally clearly aimed at someone who isn't looking for the full-on M car, so wants something softer. It was therefore designed to be easier to drive and to extract performance from - hence the torquey nature, and 'soft-limiter' - it's designed for people who tend to drive at 7-10ths, and don't regularly rev it out. Which can make it a little disappointing at times when as an enthusiastic driver you do want to rev it out.
3. Much in continuation of point 2, BMW have marketed the car at a certain type of person. The type of person who would have purchased this car brand new would more likely want a relatively comfortable daily and something with more accessible daily performance. Conversely as they have aged the prospect of an exciting rwd 2-seater sports car appeals to a demographic more keen on the driving dynamic. The original intentions of BMW no longer apply to a significant proportion of owners now. An enthusiastic driver will be far more fastidious in maintenance, warming and cooling the engine, and will want a different set of dynamics during driving, all of which can be achieved by removing some of the originally engineered-in tolerance from BMW with a remap. One thing I find quite annoying for instance is the throttle map - it gives the vast majority of the % throttle in the first 1/3 of the pedal, which annoys me. I'd rather it utilise all of the pedal.

Anyway, all of this probably marks me out as a very anal-retentive individual, so I'll stop my witterings. But in summary, I shouldn't really dismiss any and all aftermarket remaps as 'back-street tuning firms'. Some of us have a little more sense than Jonny Essex when it comes to chosing how to modify our cars!

 

[Mike6]

Hi Ed, a good writeup. I am probably a bit anal retentive myself in relation to over servicing a car - they just cannot get enough and a dirty air filter is something I would be ashamed of. But in relation to remapping I do think it lends itself to something younger and lower miles. You could add all sorts of stresses and strains to say a 10 year old engine approaching 100k miles. BUT I do agree that these cars are hugely underpowered in relation to engine size. My friends Nissan with its four cylinder 1.6 turbo engine has as much power as my 6 cylinder Zed.

 

[Smartbear]

Hi Ed, a good writeup. I am probably a bit anal retentive myself in relation to over servicing a car - they just cannot get enough and a dirty air filter is something I would be ashamed of. But in relation to remapping I do think it lends itself to something younger and lower miles. You could add all sorts of stresses and strains to say a 10 year old engine approaching 100k miles. BUT I do agree that these cars are hugely underpowered in relation to engine size. My friends Nissan with its four cylinder 1.6 turbo engine has as much power as my 6 cylinder Zed.

Comparing a fi engine to a na one is hardly a like for like comparison-if you look at other normally aspirated engines bhp/litre specific outputs they are in a fairly high state of tune (my si is 265hp from 3litres) so that's almost 90bhp/litre, the M cars are over 100bhp/litre.
Regards

 

[mr.tourette]

Hi Ed, a good writeup. I am probably a bit anal retentive myself in relation to over servicing a car - they just cannot get enough and a dirty air filter is something I would be ashamed of. But in relation to remapping I do think it lends itself to something younger and lower miles. You could add all sorts of stresses and strains to say a 10 year old engine approaching 100k miles. BUT I do agree that these cars are hugely underpowered in relation to engine size. My friends Nissan with its four cylinder 1.6 turbo engine has as much power as my 6 cylinder Zed.

Comparing a fi engine to a na one is hardly a like for like comparison-if you look at other normally aspirated engines bhp/litre specific outputs they are in a fairly high state of tune (my si is 265hp from 3litres) so that's almost 90bhp/litre, the M cars are over 100bhp/litre.
Regards

Makes you wonder how they extract 200bhp out of a 1 litre motorcycle engine eh!

 

[Steve84N]

Revs.

 

[Smartbear]

Revs.

And then some more revs
Regards

 

[Ed Doe]

:evil: Glorious Revs

Fair enough - I completely get your hesitance in jumping into tuning it, but personally beyond massively over-fuelling I think there's very little you can do beyond giving it the ability to rev too hard. But that then becomes the driver's resposibility not to over-rev it, which I'm fine with :lol:

It's also worth noting as I said in my first post, the N52 in the same specification bar a slightly different inlet manifold and different mapping makes another 6hp from memory... So the slack is there even from BMW! I think they wanted a clear differentiation between the 3.0si and the M, and also to be similarly powered by comparison to the likes of the Boxster (in non-S form). Hence the carefully selected output!

Anyway, I will certainly report back once mine has been in for the map, who knows, you might even be swayed

 

[Smartbear]

:evil: Glorious Revs

Fair enough - I completely get your hesitance in jumping into tuning it, but personally beyond massively over-fuelling I think there's very little you can do beyond giving it the ability to rev too hard. But that then becomes the driver's resposibility not to over-rev it, which I'm fine with :lol:

It's also worth noting as I said in my first post, the N52 in the same specification bar a slightly different inlet manifold and different mapping makes another 6hp from memory... So the slack is there even from BMW! I think they wanted a clear differentiation between the 3.0si and the M, and also to be similarly powered by comparison to the likes of the Boxster (in non-S form). Hence the carefully selected output!

Anyway, I will certainly report back once mine has been in for the map, who knows, you might even be swayed

Massively over fuelling will only lose you power, there's an ideal stoichiometric ratio for an engine to produce power on & to deviate massively lean or rich will have a detrimental effect
Regards

 

[Marlon]

After carefully considering all your responses (plus web searches, including other forums), Im having a remap and 'CDV delete' done on Saturday. I will report back

 

[Ed Doe]

Massively over fuelling will only lose you power, there's an ideal stoichiometric ratio for an engine to produce power on & to deviate massively lean or rich will have a detrimental effect
Regards

Completely agree - I was only suggesting that was mostly as bad as it would get - I realise the effect of running too rich or too lean but in a normally aspirated car besides the loss of power from running too rich or raised combustion temps from running lean (both of which it's hard to manage to a detrimental extreme on an na car) there's not too much else that can be got 'really wrong'!

Anyway good luck Marlon - do let us know how you get on

 

[Smartbear]

Massively over fuelling will only lose you power, there's an ideal stoichiometric ratio for an engine to produce power on & to deviate massively lean or rich will have a detrimental effect
Regards

Completely agree - I was only suggesting that was mostly as bad as it would get - I realise the effect of running too rich or too lean but in a normally aspirated car besides the loss of power from running too rich or raised combustion temps from running lean (both of which it's hard to manage to a detrimental extreme on an na car) there's not too much else that can be got 'really wrong'!

Anyway good luck Marlon - do let us know how you get on

Ah! I getcha now
Regards

 

[mr.tourette]

After carefully considering all your responses (plus web searches, including other forums), Im having a remap and 'CDV delete' done on Saturday. I will report back

Exciting stuff.. Interested to hear how you get on... Although i fear my bank account may get another bumming when you do

 

[stuartC]

After carefully considering all your responses (plus web searches, including other forums), Im having a remap and 'CDV delete' done on Saturday. I will report back

+1, can't wait to hear the results of both

 

[Smartbear]

After carefully considering all your responses (plus web searches, including other forums), Im having a remap and 'CDV delete' done on Saturday. I will report back

Is it having before & after dyno runs? Hope all goes well
Regards