3.0SE Alignment Negative Rear Camber - why so much?

J

juicy

Member
I took my 2005 Z4 3.0 SE for an alignment check the other day as I was starting to get worried that with the sheer number of potholes and general bad road surfacing this time of year, that it would be a good idea to get it checked over . I know that sports car geometry can drift over a period of time, so with spring around the corner thought it would be a good time to get it done.

I decided against taking it to a BMW dealer - without even asking them, I assumed that the price would be too excessive.
Instead, I took it to my local 'Pro Tyre' Centre.

For the Z4, there were 2 sets of alignment settings, one ‘normal’ setting and one for ‘sports suspension.’ The latter having even more aggressive camber settings.

This thread confirms this, and includes printouts of the specs (near the bottom of the page):

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125101&highlight=alignment

I assume that being a 'SE' mine falls under the ‘Sports Suspension’ settings category - as this is what the technician tried to set mine to.

What surprised me was the large amount of negative camber specified for the rear (between 2 deg 35’ to 3 deg 05’).
Mine were set to 2 deg 40' and 2 deg 55'.

Granted, this is with a laden car (according to BMW instructions 2 x 68kg in the seats, and 12kg in the boot)- which Protyre tried to replicate, by using a couple of people as ballast and some other weight in the boot.
But still ! Nearly 3 degrees of camber is a huge amount…!
I was surprised at how much negative camber BMW specify.

My previous car, a Honda S2000 always had a reputation for being a ‘raw’ uncompromising sports car, yet the manufacturer’s recommend rear camber seems very mild at 1deg 30’, when compared to the Z4 at nearly 3 degrees.

Just curious as to why the Z4 runs with such a huge amount of rear negative camber?
…and as a consequence of all that camber, how do people find the rear tyre wear on their cars – especially the 3.0SE model?
 
No idea why it has that amount of negative rear camber.
The 3.0 runs the M sport (lower) suspension as standard
I've just had mine fully set up today. By chance I have the factory settings for the 3.0i sport (pre facelift)
for you to compare the data you have with:
suspension0001.jpg
 
Thanks cj10jeeper.
That specification looks like the one Protyre used on mine.

They made 3 adjustments: front toe(set to +0.8mm and +0.9mm), rear toe (set to +1.4mm and + 1.6mm) , rear camber (increased -ve).
Interestingly, they said they couldnt adjust front camber - I dont know whether its something which BMW would have to do with a specialist tool or not, but wasnt overly concerned about this as mine was witihin the specified range.

Where did you get your alignment done?
Was there much difference in your before / after alignment specs?
 
So far they have just increased toe out to close to the max within tolerence. I need to do the bushes before anything more complex to get a clear base point as I'm tracking down 1 specific set up issue before dialing in anything decent.

IIRC you can increase front camber just by taking the pins out ouf the top of the suspension mount, loosen the 3 nuts, move and retighten. Pushing fully inboard would give an extra 1.5 degrees. Have a search as member 'curtis' has done extensive write ups on this.

Mine is being worked on by Steve at Guglielmi Motorsport in Daventry
 
Interesting read! Just looking at the angle my rear wheels sit at, I figured there must be a lot of neg camber on the rears. Didn't think it was as much as that though! The previous set of tyres certainly wore evenly right to the end of their life so doesn't seem to be an issue.

Front camber: as cj says, removing the inner dowel from the front suspension, then sliding the top of the strut inboard, allows adjustment. But IIRC Curtis (Brad) told me fully-inboard EQUALLED 1.5 deg neg camber, not added an extra 1.5 deg neg? I might be wrong though - can't remember my alignment setup figs after fitting my springs, wasn't with my usual guy (I'm intending getting it done properly by him as soon as my poly bushes are fitted).
 
Is that degree/minutes, or degree/100ths degree?

Ie, base 60 or degree/metric?


Looks like those are toe in settings too? Not toe out?

Sounds like -2 rear and -1.5 front camber might be a good plan.
 
a11y said:
Interesting read! Just looking at the angle my rear wheels sit at, I figured there must be a lot of neg camber on the rears. Didn't think it was as much as that though! The previous set of tyres certainly wore evenly right to the end of their life so doesn't seem to be an issue.

Front camber: as cj says, removing the inner dowel from the front suspension, then sliding the top of the strut inboard, allows adjustment. But IIRC Curtis (Brad) told me fully-inboard EQUALLED 1.5 deg neg camber, not added an extra 1.5 deg neg? I might be wrong though - can't remember my alignment setup figs after fitting my springs, wasn't with my usual guy (I'm intending getting it done properly by him as soon as my poly bushes are fitted).
Click to expand...

a11y - you could well be right on it being total. someone needs to dig out Curtis' notes on it as he's the resident geo expert. I'm learning as I read and listen :thumbsup:
 
cj10jeeper said:
a11y - you could well be right on it being total. someone needs to dig out Curtis' notes on it as he's the resident geo expert. I'm learning as I read and listen :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Likewise! I'm learning as I go! :thumbsup:

Curtis/Brad has been a great help though.
 
I'm on my third set of rears on my 03 3.0 sport suspension. I've been amazed (twice) at the difference in wear of the tires when comparing the inside depth to the outside depth. I write it off to driving style. The negative camber on the rear is increased during hard acceleration increasing the wear of the inside tread in particular and the whole tread area in general. If I ran harder rubber and if I drove it less aggressively than I am sure that my wife would stop asking "Didn't you just buy new tires?". But why would you spend the money to buy the car and not drive it? Live with it or go slower. Alternatively, buy something less expensive to maintain.
 
cj10jeeper said:
No idea why it has that amount of negative rear camber.
The 3.0 runs the M sport (lower) suspension as standard
I've just had mine fully set up today. By chance I have the factory settings for the 3.0i sport (pre facelift)
for you to compare the data you have with:
suspension0001.jpg
Click to expand...


Thought I would reserect this post...might be of help to mefiecosse??
 
Go for Z4M settings of similar OP.

I think they drive really badly on standard geo settings far too much rear camber and not enough on the front.

The difference is night and day when changed IMO.

A few threads about this atmo, have a look as some good feedback and settings have been mentioned.
 
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