3.0i to 3.0si, what is the difference?
- Thread starter cory
- Start date
the 3.0 is the old M54 twin vanos engine producing 231bhp. the 3.0si is the N52 with twin vanos + valvetronic + magnesium block (20% lighter) with 265 bhp.
Not much you can do for extra bhp unfortunetally. you can try breathing mods + custom remap and hope for 250ish bhp. On the si a remap will "apparently" get you 15-20bhp alone.
The 2.8 and 3.0 can not get M performance with just a raised limiter, they are down 100-120bhp and are totally diff to M power engine. Unless US engines are different to uk ones.
Not much you can do for extra bhp unfortunetally. you can try breathing mods + custom remap and hope for 250ish bhp. On the si a remap will "apparently" get you 15-20bhp alone.
The 2.8 and 3.0 can not get M performance with just a raised limiter, they are down 100-120bhp and are totally diff to M power engine. Unless US engines are different to uk ones.
You're right, they're down at least 100 bhp, and are single VANOS. However, power = torque x rpm and if you look at the power curve they make power all the way up to the limiter. I believe that 300 bhp is possible. After all, how much physical difference do you think there is between a 3.0 single VANOS M54 (231 bhp) and a 3.2 double VANOS S54 (343 bhp)? 50% gain in BHP would normally be reserved for a turbo or supercharger. I reckon the for the S54s they just check the tolerances more thoroughly...
Sorry, you're right in that power = torque x rpm but I have had done just what you say and had my old 330ci remapped and the rev limit raised, it can only safely be raised to 7,000 and only just broke 250bhp, it will never get close to an S54 with just a remap, anything over 7,000 needs some serious head and bottom end work, the difference between an S54 and the 3.0 is HUGE, there is a reason why you pay alot more for an M
I hope you'd been drinking when you thought of thatcarl said:
I graphed the ///M and the 231 3.0 a while ago for comparison, using the rolling road results from RRI. When you take also account of the ///M having a 3.62 final drive as opposed to 3.07 on the 3.0 then there is no comparison between the performance. At 6000 rpm the ///M is over 80bhp ahead. With the formula, you can't just add revs, you need to stop the torque dropping off too, otherwise you get more revs but no torque therefore very little power increase.
Lol just raise the rev limiter 
Id assume your talking about the newer N52 engines?
I test drove a 3.0 and a 3.0si last year when I bought my Z4 and couldn't really feel any difference, Ive seen the dyno curves on the previous z4um and until you really start to rev the si they produce the same HP and Tq rev for rev,
Actually iirc the 3.0 produces slightly more HP or Tq in the lower RPM band, then the si catches up and takes over for high RPM,
On the test drive I didn't really go anywhere near the top of the band so thats probably why they feel very similar, I ended up buying an 06 3.0i and then later the M,
Now the M, thats a totally different engine and feeling all together
Id assume your talking about the newer N52 engines?
I test drove a 3.0 and a 3.0si last year when I bought my Z4 and couldn't really feel any difference, Ive seen the dyno curves on the previous z4um and until you really start to rev the si they produce the same HP and Tq rev for rev,
Actually iirc the 3.0 produces slightly more HP or Tq in the lower RPM band, then the si catches up and takes over for high RPM,
On the test drive I didn't really go anywhere near the top of the band so thats probably why they feel very similar, I ended up buying an 06 3.0i and then later the M,
Now the M, thats a totally different engine and feeling all together
raising the limiter on a 3.0 will not go anywhere near a Mpower S54. Totally different engine + design. the torque on the m54 and n52 i believe is the same however the valvetronic comes into play at high revs and is quite noticeable.
Even 250 bhp on just a remap on a standard 330 is pushing either your luck or the engine. If the tuner is telling the truth..
Even 250 bhp on just a remap on a standard 330 is pushing either your luck or the engine. If the tuner is telling the truth..
Yeah, I did a bit of subsequent research and the two engines aren't even made of the same stuff (N52 is alloy, S54 is iron..) :gmb:Wondermike said:I hope you'd been drinking when you thought of thatcarl said:
However, I'm pretty sure someone on Pistonheads (maybe GTRene) has a non-M Z3 running to 7300 rpm or so, at more than 250 bhp. On second thoughts, I think GTRene has an M Coupe, and I can't find the post anyway.
the power and torque curves start dipping after the 6000rpm mark in the stock M54 engines, simply raising the rev limit isn't going to get you any more power. even when supercharged, the M54B30 power curve plateaus after 6000rpm.
if you wish to remain NA, what you need to do is drop in some 264/248 profile cams from shrick. alternatively, BMW themselves sell performance cams and software that will net you about 10hp on the M54 engine. you'll likely need a free flowing aftermarket exhaust system as well
if you wish to remain NA, what you need to do is drop in some 264/248 profile cams from shrick. alternatively, BMW themselves sell performance cams and software that will net you about 10hp on the M54 engine. you'll likely need a free flowing aftermarket exhaust system as well
If you are looking for HP increases to match a ///M they will likely cost a bunch, but almost any engine can be pushed a lot farther than the factory spec. How much do you want to spend and how much risk are you willing to tolerate to get what you want?
Do bear in mind that the farther you push an engine based on what your friendly tuner can accomplish the more dependent you are on how far away from that tuner you can drive your car unless you are prepared to have it brought back on a flatbed.
I did lots of mods to a twin turbo Audi S4 a number of years back and then blew a turbo out on the track one day - 1000 miles from home after I drove it there. I got phone calls from tuners who were quite eager to "help me out" by rebuilding it with bigger turbos and nice tuner kits to get even more HP and all I could think about while I was contemplating how I was going to get home (with the car of course) was how much worse off I would have been if the same thing happened after I had let one of them do that level of engine mod. There would be no shop on the left coast besides that tuner who would be willing to work on it given what kinds of tweaks are needed to keep it working. You can almost envision a sort of tether leading back to the shop you let loose on your drive train whenever you start driving away from the mothership.
It's one of those thought games you never really play out in your mind until you suddenly discover that you went waaaay too far away from home given what you did to your steed......
Do bear in mind that the farther you push an engine based on what your friendly tuner can accomplish the more dependent you are on how far away from that tuner you can drive your car unless you are prepared to have it brought back on a flatbed.
I did lots of mods to a twin turbo Audi S4 a number of years back and then blew a turbo out on the track one day - 1000 miles from home after I drove it there. I got phone calls from tuners who were quite eager to "help me out" by rebuilding it with bigger turbos and nice tuner kits to get even more HP and all I could think about while I was contemplating how I was going to get home (with the car of course) was how much worse off I would have been if the same thing happened after I had let one of them do that level of engine mod. There would be no shop on the left coast besides that tuner who would be willing to work on it given what kinds of tweaks are needed to keep it working. You can almost envision a sort of tether leading back to the shop you let loose on your drive train whenever you start driving away from the mothership.
It's one of those thought games you never really play out in your mind until you suddenly discover that you went waaaay too far away from home given what you did to your steed......
cory said:
I dunno, there seems to be a bit of confusion in this thread. On the '07, the 3.0i and 3.0si are both N52 engines and even have the same displacement. The extra power of the si comes from different cams, fueling, intake and ECU tuning, from what I understand. By the time you modded a 3.0i to that level, you'd have been better off buying an si in the first place.
Evil_elvis
Member
carl said:
This made my day
......To say nothing of the extra 0.2 litres, the engineering required to rev to 8k (solid valve lifters for one), six independent throttle bodies
To achieve over 107bhp per litre in a mainstream driveable car, without forced induction is beyond difficult!
BMW should have won engine of they year for the S54 engine - oh wait they did.
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