3.0 Z4 (231bhp) vs. hot hatches

[TameRacingDriver]

My last car was an FN2 Civic Type-R, with a Hondata remap. These cars get panned pretty much everywhere on the internet, but actually it was pretty fun little car, especially with the remap. I used to have an Integra so I have an idea how the purists think a hot Honda should drive.

In a straight line it was pretty nippy, but certainly not *fast*; my mate was pretty much equal to me in a remapped 320d. On a twisty road however, if you were committed you could really move, I reckon it was a seriously quick car on such a road as long as you knew how to drive a VTEC car properly (give it absolute death at all times!). I can't be 100% sure I'd be as fast in my Z4C 3.0Si on the same roads even after 6 months of driving it.

I have absolutely no regrets about swapping to the Z4 (and its not even a Roadster, its a hatchback! :lol. The Civic was a decent car but I just didn't bond with it. It just felt like a firmly sprung, brightly coloured shopping kart when you weren't giving it death on a B-road. The Z4 is a much more special experience in every respect. From the looks, to the cabin, driving position, that sweet 6-cylinder engine, RWD sports-car handling, it feels satisfying in any scenario and at any speed; even just driving to work it feels good, unlike the Civic. I felt the same way about my 350Z v's hatchbacks, and even the MX5's (one was quite a special car to be fair) and my MR2 Turbo just all felt so much better to drive than any hatchback I've driven. The only FWD car that has come close has been the ITR.

As I was saying to a mate, anything like a 3.0 Z4 or quicker is almost too much for the road anyway. Driving with intent sees some highly illegal speeds coming up in no time at all, just as it would in a modern hot hatch; sometimes its fun spanking something with less power. The Zed has more than enough performance for the road, and only those interested in top-trumps in the pub is going to be disappointed. What a hot hatch will never do is nail the whole experience like a proper sports car will (and more especially one with more than 4-cylinders IMO!)

 

[GuidoK]

With regards to how quick a Z4 3.0i is, I have many friends with new focus st's, 247bhp I believe. The Z4 is on a par with them.

There is a pretty good remedy for that....

 

[Ducklakeview]

My friend recently got the Ford focus st 3. Gave him a drag in my z coupe 3.0si and it beat it by half / full car length, same result after several attempts. Straight 6 sounds so much better than these turbo engines.

Likewise, I've binned off several of these off the line and gotten a good distance on them. I then allow them to pass and laugh at them... Drives the owners slightly nuts...

Mike

 

[Artful-Bodger]

If your driving like an idiot on the public road your breaking the law and putting other road users at risk it's not something you should be boasting about!

Speed and the crowded modern public road are not compatible, that's what tracks are for, if you want to know which car is quick take a look at the results from the UK Hillclimb and Sprint championships, There are several championships with classes for many different cars from road going to full race modified, We ran an E30 325I in the Trident Welsh, won our class a few times (generally in the wet) and came class second in the championship a few years back competing against Porsches, TVR's M3's etc, Not many of the hot hatches could match our times and the more power they produced the more tyre issues ensued, The real challengers were Evo's and Impretza's some of which were very quick, the Z4 was a rare sight but there was one 3.0 car which turned up at Llandow and put in times almost 2 secs faster than our 325, but it was driven by a guy who knew how to pedal it, few road drivers get even close to the limits of their cars, they just think they do!

 

[Ducklakeview]

If your driving like an idiot on the public road your breaking the law and putting other road users at risk it's not something you should be boasting about!

Strong words from a newbie, shame he/she didn't mention who they were aimed at - Purely to avoid confusion

Mike

 

[Mike6]

Give me the lazy 6 cylinder any day. Those highly tuned 4 pots will not last if you drive them hard. Be nice to see how many are around in 10 years time.

 

[goldbcfc]

The new leon is definitely not 0-60 in 5 seconds.

With regards to how quick a Z4 3.0i is, I have many friends with new focus st's, 247bhp I believe. The Z4 is on a par with them.

It is also on a par with a Fiesta ST mountune, and quick a bit quicker than a standard Fiesta ST180.

new cupra isn't 5s?

Infact its 0.2s quicker if you want to precise. The cupra is 280bhp 5.7s and Z4 3.0i is 231bhp 5.9s the later facelift Z4 3.0is is 265bhp and 5.7s. Even the Mk1/Mk2 cupra is 0-60 in 6s and many are remaped so are easily 5s after. I'm not sure why you think the later model wouldn't be even quicker when it has 40 bhp more standard. Trust me I go santapod a lot I see many battles obviously Evo's are the quickest. After that all the rest of the so called quick cars R32,VXR,RS,ST,GTi what ever. The cupras always beat them I haven't seen the latest 65 plate cupra in action at pod yet but as its 1s quicker 0-60 already over the old stock cupra models. I'm sure its a beast and remap it will be over 300 bhp easy so low end 5s if not pushing 4s after remap. If I hadn't seen 280bhp on the back I'd of not even known it was a cupra its a plain 4 door that doesn't even look sporty compared with the old model cupras.

A 3.0i really isn't a quick car it doesn't even feel as light as it should be. The gear ratios are all wrong way too long not short and snappy enough. You have to really hold the rpm to get it moving very much like a civic r type which only benefits long straights. It doesn't come alive until after 4000 rpm where torque is at peak being so linear. There's no torque what so ever low down which is why hot hatches feel so much more fun. The difference between the E46 M3 or Z4M with the S54 engine is day and night. Plenty of low down torque which snaps your neck back. With the big 6 cyl M54 engines theses are more like good cruisers. I've only ever owned bmw's with the 6 cyl M54 engine so know. Best advice get it remaped some one like Jason at BW chiptune will have you around 250bhp with plenty of torque. Which really livens the car up and makes the most difference when up against other quick cars. Its all about the torque that moves you remember something petrol bmws lack on standard ecu map. Remap will cost you £300 but well worth it.

 

[Steve84N]

You should try the N52, I've had an M54 in an e46 330Ci and the N52 is noticeably keener all round. It has low end torque, likes to rev more and is usefully more powerful. Sounds a bit more raspy too.

 

[mac27040]

i raced a new seat curpa & an audi rs3 a few months back and boy are they quick, the RS3 was quicker than me and i would say from a standing start the curpa is slightly quicker but mid and top end i had a very small advantage on the cupra, and im supercharged!!!

No way is a standard m54 in the same league as them

 

[ga41]

A remaped S3/TTS and assorted clones will give an M a run for its money. Don't ask how I know!

 

[Pedro]

I have a stage 1 remapped s3 running 300bhp, it is rapid, but my 3.0 roadster is at least as fun. I bought it knowing it would not compete pace wise with the s3 but the noise, the roof down capabilities and the rwd make it every bit as good as the s3, I love both

Pedro

 

[goldbcfc]

Owners can be very biased as to think bmw is some superior motor company when it really isn't. If you like driving you will know hot hatches are good, renault and ford have had racing bread cars for many years. I know its a Z4 forum but all this snobbery is funny if u had bad exp in one fair enough. Whilst the Z4 might be light enough to chuck around a few corners and have enough grip to feel rewarding its really no match for a decent hot hatch. The Z4 might be ok to outrun a few street cars but so can most 6cyl bmw's. The 3.0i for me doesn't have enough power or torque and is still quite heavy when some coupes are just above 1000kg. That new fez ST montune is a little ripper for sure. Mk2 clio renaultsport proper good more rewarding than a Z4. Seats are good too both leon and Ibiza models. These people who honestly think the Z4 is so great need to get out on a track day more often and see these other cars probably come past you then you'll realise why hot hatches are so good.

 

[TameRacingDriver]

^ Not everyone is obsessed with outright speed. I dont track mine, so as long as its fun, feels quick and makes me feel good driving it, that's good enough for me. I've had a fair few hot hatches and none of them have ever made me feel as good driving it as a RWD sports car does. I'd rather, for example, have a Mk1 MX5 with all of its 115 bhp than a Clio 172, which would obliterate the MX5 in terms of speed because the MX5 is just such a fun, pure little car.

 

[AndyBeech]

Owners can be very biased as to think bmw is some superior motor company when it really isn't. If you like driving you will know hot hatches are good, renault and ford have had racing bread cars for many years. I know its a Z4 forum but all this snobbery is funny if u had bad exp in one fair enough. Whilst the Z4 might be light enough to chuck around a few corners and have enough grip to feel rewarding its really no match for a decent hot hatch. The Z4 might be ok to outrun a few street cars but so can most 6cyl bmw's. The 3.0i for me doesn't have enough power or torque and is still quite heavy when some coupes are just above 1000kg. That new fez ST montune is a little ripper for sure. Mk2 clio renaultsport proper good more rewarding than a Z4. Seats are good too both leon and Ibiza models. These people who honestly think the Z4 is so great need to get out on a track day more often and see these other cars probably come past you then you'll realise why hot hatches are so good.

Where's the snobbery? Most people have agreed that modern hot hatches are quicker, but your comparing apples and oranges. Z4's are at least 10 years old now compared to the cars your mentioning. Technology's moved on so of course they are going to be quicker, you'd be a fool to believe otherwise.
If your a traffic light Grand Prix fanatic, then yes your going to be disappointed. If it's about the whole experience, then the Z4 has more character than any of those cars you've mentioned, in my opinion.

Most of your posts so far seem pretty trollworthy, between this and the stupid roadster owners thread (where you wax lyrical about the amazingness of your Zed but now it's not all that great?), all you seem to want to do is bait other members into arguing with you.....

 

[goldbcfc]

The cars I mentioned and driven are actually all the same ages get your facts right first, so what is this new technology u talk about?.

As a mechanic I think your talking rubbish because if anything cars are now going back to the oldskool again using turbos on smaller engineed cars you now see a lot in designs. Anyway no doubt you haven't driven any of these cars your disregarding real enthusiast drive all cars not just ones with blue and white badges. I dont work for bmw but stil work for another major dealer and I bet Im a better tech than a lot of them bmw lads talk to at my local bmw sytner garage. Seriously some people man this is what I mean by the brand snobbery half the bmw owners just want a decent luxury car they don't actually know about cars which is the sad thing its all status. Stop disregarding such lesser car brands that's why so many bmw owners get laughed at by others in the motor industry.

the thread is actually about the lad wanting to go on some runs and not getting left by his mates in coupes so im guessing he likes a good spirited drive. I never said a Z4 wasn't good just be fooled if you thought it was better than some hot hatches mentioned. I suppose it is a bmw forum we must all think their the best engineers.....errrrrrr

last word im not baiting no one I have an opinion its a forum if you don't like it don't feel the need to comment just ignore me because that's what id do to you just grow a pair or grab your slippers which ever.

Edit: oh I just realised your sig says Z4M so maybe your opinion is more valid than mine I guess another prime example of that bmw owner who may of just bought a M car to become a car guru.....seriously man...lol

 

[Zeld4]

The cars I mentioned and driven are actually all the same ages get your facts right first, so what is this new technology u talk about?.

As a mechanic I think your talking rubbish because if anything cars are now going back to the oldskool again using turbos on smaller engineed cars you now see a lot in designs. Anyway no doubt you haven't driven any of these cars your disregarding real enthusiast drive all cars not just ones with blue and white badges. I dont work for bmw but stil work for another major dealer and I bet Im a better tech than a lot of them bmw lads talk to at my local bmw sytner garage. Seriously some people man this is what I mean by the brand snobbery half the bmw owners just want a decent luxury car they don't actually know about cars which is the sad thing its all status. Stop disregarding such lesser car brands that's why so many bmw owners get laughed at by others in the motor industry.

the thread is actually about the lad wanting to go on some runs and not getting left by his mates in coupes so im guessing he likes a good spirited drive. I never said a Z4 wasn't good just be fooled if you thought it was better than some hot hatches mentioned. I suppose it is a bmw forum we must all think their the best engineers.....errrrrrr

last word im not baiting no one I have an opinion its a forum if you don't like it don't feel the need to comment just ignore me because that's what id do to you just grow a pair or grab your slippers which ever.

Edit: oh I just realised your sig says Z4M so maybe your opinion is more valid than mine I guess another prime example of that bmw owner who may of just bought a M car to become a car guru.....seriously man...lol

I don't think you can say modern hot hatches are going old school because they are using turbos and smaller engines. A small modern turbo engine, even an R56 turbo S which is 10 years old now are so much more sophisticated than say a Lancia Delta or an escort Cosworth turbo engine. Things like direct injection and twin scroll turbos have revolutionised the small turbo engine.
It's unrecognisable in the way it performs to the way a small turbo'd engine would have performed in the 80's and 90's. Hardly old school.

 

[Steve84N]

A Volvo truck fitter doth not an expert make.

You don't seem to know how technology has moved on, don't understand vehicle dynamics properly and continue to put words in people's mouths. Nowhere was there a condescending attitude from an M driver but you 'created' one. Your aggressively toned replies are not conversant to a pleasant forum atmosphere and it would be much appreciated if you could voice your opinion in the same manner as everyone else rather than expecting the rest of the users to get their coat. :!:

(For the record, I'm not professing to be an expert either but to give some credibility to what I say I will point out that I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering.)

On topic, I used to enjoy the M54 3.0 in my old e46 but after a while came to realise it wasn't all that quick in a moderately heavy car. Was super smooth and sounded good which is of more interest than going quicker because as already stated how often do you get to use all the performance.

 

[goldbcfc]

I'm in the rather lucky position of owning both. I find that they both tick seperate boxes, and when I'm driving one on a blast I always feel like the one I'm driving is better then the other... Until I get into the other!

The Hot Hatch is so capable under so many different conditions. My own Golf will destroy my Z4 in a straight line from a standing start, and I would need my head checked to try and get the Z4 into corners at the same speed. Having said that the BMW with the roof down screaming towards 7900rpm makes that seem like a bunch of codswallop! Much more emotive on a "raw" level that the slightly synthetic golf can't touch!

Good review from someone with experience not just repeating old stories from mates. I was at track day on Friday after seeing this R32 take the chicane faster than most others I actually left that day thinking a R32 would be nice upgrade as we already have a golf GT. This is why it's so easy to get caught up with being biased just because of brand badge. After I spoke with the R32 owner and asked if he lifted off through that section the way his car just leant over and easily took the bends was amazing much faster than I could of went in my Z4. He replied I didn't lift out as I wasn't sure to do so as it my 1st track day. Another reason why hot hatches are so good they are so much fun. A lot will big their bmw's up to the cows come home and cant even drive the thing properly all because they wanted what they see it as the superior brand. This is why I just laugh at these type of owners they go out buy the latest M car and know eff all about track or have no real experience of even driving hard. I like your comment about having the roof down in the Z4M which was a point I made the other day in a thread but those two coupe owners above came along with their opinions defending coupes of course on a roadster thread and no other car is worthy of course.....quite funny really

 

[AndyBeech]

I'm in the rather lucky position of owning both. I find that they both tick seperate boxes, and when I'm driving one on a blast I always feel like the one I'm driving is better then the other... Until I get into the other!

The Hot Hatch is so capable under so many different conditions. My own Golf will destroy my Z4 in a straight line from a standing start, and I would need my head checked to try and get the Z4 into corners at the same speed. Having said that the BMW with the roof down screaming towards 7900rpm makes that seem like a bunch of codswallop! Much more emotive on a "raw" level that the slightly synthetic golf can't touch!

Good review from someone with experience not just repeating old stories from mates. I was at track day on Friday after seeing this R32 take the chicane faster than most others I actually left that day thinking a R32 would be nice upgrade as we already have a golf GT. This is why it's so easy to get caught up with being biased just because of brand badge. After I spoke with the R32 owner and asked if he lifted off through that section the way his car just leant over and easily took the bends was amazing much faster than I could of went in my Z4. He replied I didn't lift out as I wasn't sure to do so as it my 1st track day. Another reason why hot hatches are so good they are so much fun. A lot will big their bmw's up to the cows come home and cant even drive the thing properly all because they wanted what they see it as the superior brand. This is why I just laugh at these type of owners they go out buy the latest M car and know eff all about track or have no real experience of even driving hard. I like your comment about having the roof down in the Z4M which was a point I made the other day in a thread but those two coupe owners above came along with their opinions defending coupes of course on a roadster thread and no other car is worthy of course.....quite funny really

Mate, your attitude is hilarious. You've made up so much tripe that I never even said its not even worth deciphering it and replying. I've never known someone make so many assumptions in my life it's plain dumb.

By the way chap, the way forums work is you generally post an 'opinion' and others can agree or disagree, hence the word 'forum'. If someone disagrees you don't have to go on the attack like a 2 year old keyboard warrior, it makes you look like a total bell, much like you came across in your Roadster owners thread.
Keep on truckin' pal.

 

[goldbcfc]

A Volvo truck fitter doth not an expert make.
(For the record, I'm not professing to be an expert either but to give some credibility to what I say I will point out that I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering.)

I have no degree, probably get paid less too but at least I know what I'm doing. Let me guess your one of these uni dudes standing with your clipboard trying to tell an engineer like me how a job should be done. As soon as I hand u the tools you run off I meet people like you in the trade all the time no offense dude but you can keep your degree its not worth the paper its written on. The best engineers are those a lot of the time from smaller companies who take things and make them better or else we wouldn't have a race teams of engineers who make standard cars better to track. Google bmw s3 dinan they got another 100bhp out of stock M car when gmbh are supposed to know their stuff right?. Oh and for as for where I work you clearly don't know who Volvo are yet again another biased brand snobbery probably comparing your vague knowledge of Volvo cars. Use your degree then if you haven't heard of how good Volvo is. I'm baffled at that take a look around you I guess u wont go far without seeing a Volvo coach,bus,truck or plant machinery its the NO.1 company in the world above. I must be at the wrong company then according to your degree of knowledge...lol

@zeld4 I was more comparing cars like 1.8T,2.0T,evos and subarus etc cars of like 15-20 yrs max not cars from the 80's that are nearly 40yrs old of course tech changes but yeah twin scroll/ twin powered whatever bmw calls them now is a bonus.

@andybeech of course my opinions not as valid you drive a Z4M I've been around E46 forums long enough to know how its works with pecking order just a shmae half the M car owners aint that clued up really nothings changed their. M cars owners always know best bunch of manual brochure/readers....lol keep on trucking whats that suppose to mean yet im the one with assumptions behave will ya. maybe I should work at Mercedes trucks for status u plonker u know eff all about engineering run along