2.5i, 2.5si & 3.0si Owners Beware (N52 Engine Only)
- Thread starter srhutch
- Start date
oil starvation to cylinder heads has been a problem for engineers for years and often the cause of failed camshafts etc. Used to be caused by wrong oil , narrow, blocked oil ways, poor oil pump circulation. You would have thought that designing in a reliable method of ensuring oil flow in all circumstances especially at start up would be the first thing you'd do!
Interesting that the fix is a new 'modified' cylinder head and not just replacing the faulty lifter.
Interesting that the fix is a new 'modified' cylinder head and not just replacing the faulty lifter.
Richtea..what was the outcome?
I was seriously considering a coupe but this N52 issue has really put me off.
At the moment I only do 4 - 6k a year so she would be garaged most of the time.
I emailed BMW to ask about the TSB and whether they agree that it is a design fault - they responded saying that they would need to look at cars individually and couldn't comment about replacing the head out of warranty.
I would be looking at a private / Independent purchase so the chances of a warranty are quite slim.
I was seriously considering a coupe but this N52 issue has really put me off.
At the moment I only do 4 - 6k a year so she would be garaged most of the time.
I emailed BMW to ask about the TSB and whether they agree that it is a design fault - they responded saying that they would need to look at cars individually and couldn't comment about replacing the head out of warranty.
I would be looking at a private / Independent purchase so the chances of a warranty are quite slim.
:?when you are looking at a specific car you can always find out from BMW if the head was replaced under warranty.
A 2007 car will not have any Manufacturers warranty left, but may have BMW or another warranty applied. But I would only bank on a BMW warranty to get the work done.
A 2007 car will not have any Manufacturers warranty left, but may have BMW or another warranty applied. But I would only bank on a BMW warranty to get the work done.
After some arguing BMW replaced my exhaust side lifters, it has improved it but the issue is still there. It has only occurred once in the few weeks since and that was after 3 days of 2 mile journeys.
Is it a problem? Probably isnt going to do the engine much good in the long run but I will change the car in another 2 years and it will have done about 40k by then so is it going to be a problem for me? Probably not.
I wouldnt buy a car without warranty in case it does get worse and I will extend the warranty when I get the chance (I would have done that anyway, I dont believe you should run such a complicated car without a warranty anyway but thats just me.)
Would I buy the car again? Not really sure, I am more annoyed by the shitty handling with the run flats than the engine issues.
However I almost certainly wont buy another BMW ever again, their customer service is absolutely fucking terrible. I am disgusted by the way they have dealt with my emails. They only acknowledged the emails after emailing the UK MD, before that the 3 emails I sent were not even acknowledged. They clearly have issues with the engine. They also clearly have issues with the newer turbo engines that resulted in a law suit in the US over the HPFP failures. They produce sub standard goods and trade on the fact that people expect them to be better to put them off complaining. Contrast that with Honda. I had a Honda Civic as my car before, it was for the first 3 years owned by work, I abused the poor car terribly. I did around 30k a year in it, a lot of the time in traffic, exactly the kind of driving that would wreck a car and it never gave me any issues at all. OK the ride was hard but it didnt rattle at all. It went wrong once in 4 years, that was a battery failure and cant even really complain about that. It did have to go back for a recall however for a problem with the handbrake. When I didnt bother to read the letter about the recall (I was very busy at work and not reading my mail properly) Honda UK phoned me and told me. The dealer was 100 times better than Chandlers (Collins Honda) and they really couldnt do more to help. If they still made the Type R I would have another one in an instant. You should check out some of the Honda forums really to see what people complain about, its quite eye opening to see the minor things that get mentioned because theres hardly anything major.
Is it a problem? Probably isnt going to do the engine much good in the long run but I will change the car in another 2 years and it will have done about 40k by then so is it going to be a problem for me? Probably not.
I wouldnt buy a car without warranty in case it does get worse and I will extend the warranty when I get the chance (I would have done that anyway, I dont believe you should run such a complicated car without a warranty anyway but thats just me.)
Would I buy the car again? Not really sure, I am more annoyed by the shitty handling with the run flats than the engine issues.
However I almost certainly wont buy another BMW ever again, their customer service is absolutely fucking terrible. I am disgusted by the way they have dealt with my emails. They only acknowledged the emails after emailing the UK MD, before that the 3 emails I sent were not even acknowledged. They clearly have issues with the engine. They also clearly have issues with the newer turbo engines that resulted in a law suit in the US over the HPFP failures. They produce sub standard goods and trade on the fact that people expect them to be better to put them off complaining. Contrast that with Honda. I had a Honda Civic as my car before, it was for the first 3 years owned by work, I abused the poor car terribly. I did around 30k a year in it, a lot of the time in traffic, exactly the kind of driving that would wreck a car and it never gave me any issues at all. OK the ride was hard but it didnt rattle at all. It went wrong once in 4 years, that was a battery failure and cant even really complain about that. It did have to go back for a recall however for a problem with the handbrake. When I didnt bother to read the letter about the recall (I was very busy at work and not reading my mail properly) Honda UK phoned me and told me. The dealer was 100 times better than Chandlers (Collins Honda) and they really couldnt do more to help. If they still made the Type R I would have another one in an instant. You should check out some of the Honda forums really to see what people complain about, its quite eye opening to see the minor things that get mentioned because theres hardly anything major.
Oh Sh!t... my car started tapping at the weekend and I also didn't realise how major this problem was until I searched the web & stumbled across this thread.
I bought my 2007 3.0si in January and I got a 12 month warranty... couldn't tell you what sort of warranty it was though (I'm lazy / stupid when it comes to that sort of thing). I've booked it in for Thursday but the annoying thing is that this morning the problem had gone away. I can guarantee that when they look at the car on Thursday they'll just say they can't find a problem.
I'm really stressed now that come January when we're having the cold weather the problem will return and stay, by then I'll be out of warranty. The chances of me selling on the car would be damaged because the noise was so noticeable at the weekend...
Not sure what to do!
I bought my 2007 3.0si in January and I got a 12 month warranty... couldn't tell you what sort of warranty it was though (I'm lazy / stupid when it comes to that sort of thing). I've booked it in for Thursday but the annoying thing is that this morning the problem had gone away. I can guarantee that when they look at the car on Thursday they'll just say they can't find a problem.
I'm really stressed now that come January when we're having the cold weather the problem will return and stay, by then I'll be out of warranty. The chances of me selling on the car would be damaged because the noise was so noticeable at the weekend...
Not sure what to do!
First things first, don't panic. It is a recognised issue with the engine, but BMW claim it doesn't damage the engine; so it's more annoying than anything. If you use the car regularly, you should rarely experience the problem.
Secondly, I assume because you're not sure what warranty you have, that you didn't buy from BMW. That does make things a bit more difficult to be honest.
What you can do though is make sure you take it to a garage that has experienced the issue previously. They are then more likely to believe and/or understand the issue you're experiencing.
As PVR says, definitely record it on a video camera if you can - this just helps with presenting the problem to the dealer. I'm not sure where you're based, but Dick Lovett Swindon took my car straight in, diagnosed it, and fixed it; all with no hassle. They will have to replace the HVAs (Hydraulic Valve Adjusters) first, as per BMW instruction. You then, like me and Steve, require a full cylinder head replacement.
Be reassured that ALL 2.5si and 3.0si engines suffer from this issue, and I don't believe anyone has experienced a dead engine due to oil starvation in the lifters.
I hope that helps somewhat, but Steve (srhutch) is the expert when it comes to this.
Secondly, I assume because you're not sure what warranty you have, that you didn't buy from BMW. That does make things a bit more difficult to be honest.
What you can do though is make sure you take it to a garage that has experienced the issue previously. They are then more likely to believe and/or understand the issue you're experiencing.
As PVR says, definitely record it on a video camera if you can - this just helps with presenting the problem to the dealer. I'm not sure where you're based, but Dick Lovett Swindon took my car straight in, diagnosed it, and fixed it; all with no hassle. They will have to replace the HVAs (Hydraulic Valve Adjusters) first, as per BMW instruction. You then, like me and Steve, require a full cylinder head replacement.
Be reassured that ALL 2.5si and 3.0si engines suffer from this issue, and I don't believe anyone has experienced a dead engine due to oil starvation in the lifters.
I hope that helps somewhat, but Steve (srhutch) is the expert when it comes to this.
Thanks for the responses guys.
Just to clarify, I did buy approved used from BMW so I'm assuming the standard 12 month warranty that come with the car would cover any work required. Also, I do use the car regularly but my commute is <10 miles and I read somewhere (service bulletin I think) that regular short journeys can also contribute to the problem.
My biggest concern is proving to BMW that there is a problem and getting them to do the definitive head replacement before my warranty expires in January. I appreciate that the problem may not cause any serious damage to the engine but I'd hate to think I have to drive around my lovely Z4 sounding the way it did the other day. Also as I already mentioned when I come to sell my car, it may put off potential buyers when they start it up and it sounds like a tractor.
It just makes me anxious to think that I have to embark on the laborious process of trying to convince BMW a) that there is problem b) to fix it under warranty.
Just to clarify, I did buy approved used from BMW so I'm assuming the standard 12 month warranty that come with the car would cover any work required. Also, I do use the car regularly but my commute is <10 miles and I read somewhere (service bulletin I think) that regular short journeys can also contribute to the problem.
My biggest concern is proving to BMW that there is a problem and getting them to do the definitive head replacement before my warranty expires in January. I appreciate that the problem may not cause any serious damage to the engine but I'd hate to think I have to drive around my lovely Z4 sounding the way it did the other day. Also as I already mentioned when I come to sell my car, it may put off potential buyers when they start it up and it sounds like a tractor.
It just makes me anxious to think that I have to embark on the laborious process of trying to convince BMW a) that there is problem b) to fix it under warranty.
Brill - You're AUC covered! That makes things so much easier!
There's no excuse for it, so don't worry if they say about you doing short journeys in the car. I used to do 4 miles each way in my Z4, and they never queried me on it.
Don't worry about getting it proven; just worry about getting it logged. I had warranty work carried out after my warranty ran out on my old Z4 because the issue was logged beforehand - no problems at all, and the dealer advised me of this.
As I say, if your local dealer is being a bit of a pain, find a good one via here. Dick Lovett Swindon have always been very good with me, and they fixed mine no problem.
There's no excuse for it, so don't worry if they say about you doing short journeys in the car. I used to do 4 miles each way in my Z4, and they never queried me on it.
Don't worry about getting it proven; just worry about getting it logged. I had warranty work carried out after my warranty ran out on my old Z4 because the issue was logged beforehand - no problems at all, and the dealer advised me of this.
As I say, if your local dealer is being a bit of a pain, find a good one via here. Dick Lovett Swindon have always been very good with me, and they fixed mine no problem.
As IK. says that is good news, and if you are concerned about the warranty running out and not being covered then for around £40 per month you could continue the BMW warranty depending on mileage already covered. Although as IK. says once it's noted they should cover even if the warranty does expire.
I would try and work out how to replicate it, if it starts doing it every time you leave the car for two days then you may have to leave with the dealer for this time so they can replicate. My old car always did longish journeys so always warmed up properly but I could go a few days in between which caused the problem to occur more often I believe.
Good luck and keep us updated though.
I would try and work out how to replicate it, if it starts doing it every time you leave the car for two days then you may have to leave with the dealer for this time so they can replicate. My old car always did longish journeys so always warmed up properly but I could go a few days in between which caused the problem to occur more often I believe.
Good luck and keep us updated though.