10 Speaker non-carver head unit upgrade

[Jakg]

I've got the 10 speaker package in my 2004 Z4 with an amp - "S677A HiFi System Professional DSP".

I want to replace the headunit, but looking online seems to suggest this is difficult.

I've seen this post - https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59282 - but I think the BMW 17-pin -> ISO adaptors should take care of that wiring?

Only complication I see is the remote wiring as that won't be in the ISO connector.

Ideas?

I'm confident with auto electrics, just need a point in the right direction...

 

[mjennings23]

DSP is the Carver system

 

[Jakg]

How do I tell the difference? I don't see the word "carver" anywhere. Has the amp in the boot and the DSP selection in the head unit.

 

[srhutch]

Your first post states DSP, backed by it being on the menu as you state.

I’m not sure who’s replaced the head unit with DSP. I am aware of people swapping the amp though.

 

[mjennings23]

Pretty sure the factory amp flat out will not work with any aftermarket head unit, so it's either replace the head, amp and door crossovers (the crossover is part of the amp, and each speaker receives a separate signal. Not something you can replicate with an aftermarket amp), or it's possible to maintain the factory head unit and wire a new unit into the aux input I believe. Seen this done with the new HU installed in the rear centre console in place of the CD changer.

 

[motoroller]

Your first post states DSP, backed by it being on the menu as you state.

I’m not sure who’s replaced the head unit with DSP. I am aware of people swapping the amp though.

Swapping which amp - from carver to something else?

I've seen the subwoofers upgraded in the behind-seat pods but are there any links to amplifier upgrades? JBL MS-8 or Helix type jobs, DSP and amplification.

 

[Jakg]

Had a proper go at this today, but it looks like I have the full digital system so I'm a bit stuffed!

New headunit goes in fine, power up etc but no sound is produced.

The standard head unit only has front speaker outputs wired up (online some people say this is weird but kind of makes sense in a two seater!), but I don't think they go anywhere - certainly wasn't getting any resistance on them.

Weirdly with the speakers disconnected from the headunit, no sound came out - which I wouldn't expect if the headunit was sending the signals to the amp via KBUS?

I tried making sure that the amp was receiving power (i.e. that pin 13 was receiving +12v from the headunit remote) which it was, but no joy.

When I disconnected the KBUS wire from the amp, no sound was produced.

In addition, I can "fade" from front to rear from the headunit (what a pointless feature) - but if I only have two channel output (left and right) then that can't be possible with the speaker output from the headunit - it must be sending the full signal to the amp and it's doing the work.

From this I'm pretty sure that the connection between the headunit and amp is digital via KBUS and that an aftermarket stereo won't work unless it can do the same (which I doubt anything can). Only options are:

Hide the OE stereo somewhere and put the new one in the dash running into the OE one - some people have done this but I think it's just daft,

Swap the OE amp for something else. With the battery in the boot it should be quite easy, but the speakers have funny impedances so that's a challenge. Must better idea, but this is meant to be a cheap summer car, not a big project!

If anyone has any other ideas I'm all ears.

 

[motoroller]

I'm in a similar situation - mine is non-Carver (HiFi not DSP) and I'm toying with the idea of replacing the factory amplifier. The speaker impedances aren't too weird luckily - it's not like the Carver system!

 

[pcube]

Unfortunately for cars that came originally with the DSP amp, there's no simple solution to make an aftermarket head unit work. Either way, you're gonna have to get rid of the factory amp.

One option is to replace the factory amp with an aftermarket plug and play amp. The one I'm using is the Match Up 7BMW. Uses the original harness, install takes 30 mins (most of the time is spent removing the rear carpet), and you retain all original speaker wiring. The only major drawback is that this is a 7-channel amp, and will therefore only drive the tweeters, kick panel 16cm subs, and the rear 10cm mids. Being a DSP amp allows you to make adjustments to each speaker individually, so coupled with the higher output, sound quality is considerably improved despite losing 4 speakers.

Or...

You can rewire the whole audio system ie. run brand new wiring from your head unit to any generic aftermarket amp, then hook your speakers up from there. For the speakers you can again run new wires, or possibly tap from the original harness if you've got the wiring diagram.

 

[motoroller]

Unfortunately for cars that came originally with the DSP amp, there's no simple solution to make an aftermarket head unit work. Either way, you're gonna have to get rid of the factory amp.

One option is to replace the factory amp with an aftermarket plug and play amp. The one I'm using is the Match Up 7BMW. Uses the original harness, install takes 30 mins (most of the time is spent removing the rear carpet), and you retain all original speaker wiring. The only major drawback is that this is a 7-channel amp, and will therefore only drive the tweeters, kick panel 16cm subs, and the rear 10cm mids. Being a DSP amp allows you to make adjustments to each speaker individually, so coupled with the higher output, sound quality is considerably improved despite losing 4 speakers.

Or...

You can rewire the whole audio system ie. run brand new wiring from your head unit to any generic aftermarket amp, then hook your speakers up from there. For the speakers you can again run new wires, or possibly tap from the original harness if you've got the wiring diagram.

Which system did you have to begin with? I have a couple of Helix amplifiers at the ready but this 7-channel one looks ideal! Does it replace the HiFi (non-DSP) amplifier too?

I need to research the differences between HiFI and DSP/Carver now, to figure out where my HiFi amp is and whether the connectors are the same.

 

[pcube]

I need to research the differences between HiFI and DSP/Carver now, to figure out where my HiFi amp is and whether the connectors are the same.

Mine came equipped with Top Hifi aka Carver DSP

 

[motoroller]

I need to research the differences between HiFI and DSP/Carver now, to figure out where my HiFi amp is and whether the connectors are the same.

Mine came equipped with Top Hifi aka Carver DSP

Did you change the speakers to be able to use the Match DSP?

 

[pcube]

Did you change the speakers to be able to use the Match DSP?

Nope, stock speakers will work just fine. Although right now I'm researching upgraded speakers for EVEN better sound quality... it's a slippery slope.

So far shortlisted to either Rainbow Sound Line or a mixed Audio Systems setup for a 3-way front sound stage (both will be semi active with tweeter and mids hooked up via a passive crossover), and probably a Rainbow Dream Line coaxial to be fitted where the carvers currently are.

 

[motoroller]

I'm toying between pp82dsp and up7.

 

[pcube]

You mean the PP 86DSP? That was my first choice but it couldn't work on my car. The two extra channels could prove to be useful, but I don't know if they would drive the mids in the doors or the carvers. Driving the carvers would be absolutely pointless imo. Another point to note is that the 86DSP only produces 55w per channel, so you may have issues with higher-end woofers if you eventually decide to upgrade.

 

[Rich8]

I need to research the differences between HiFI and DSP/Carver now, to figure out where my HiFi amp is and whether the connectors are the same.

Mine came equipped with Top Hifi aka Carver DSP

Nope.
Top HiFi and carver/DSP are two different systems -not the same.

Basic - just 6 speakers

Top HiFi - amp and 10 speakers

Carver/DSP - different amp, 10 speakers, and a general pain in the arse to upgrade/bugger with.

 

[pcube]

Sigh, here we go again.

According to BMW specifications Hifi refers to non-DSP amp with 10 speaker configuration, while Top Hifi refers to DSP amp with 10 speakers (which include the carver woofers).

 

[motoroller]

Sigh, here we go again.

According to BMW specifications Hifi refers to non-DSP amp with 10 speaker configuration, while Top Hifi refers to DSP amp with 10 speakers (which include the carver woofers).

And just to check, you said before the up7 is fine for both hifi and top? If it is then sounds like a good investment as I'll likely always have a BMW 8) :rofl:

 

[pcube]

And just to check, you said before the up7 is fine for both hifi and top? If it is then sounds like a good investment as I'll likely always have a BMW 8) :rofl:

No I never said that... my experience with the UP7 thus far is only with DSP equipped cars so I can't say for certain if it'll work on yours. Assuming the connections are the same I don't see why not though. Your safest best is to drop by your local installer and let him have a go. If the UP7 doesn't work, the PP86 or any other generic amp definitely will.

 

[motoroller]

And just to check, you said before the up7 is fine for both hifi and top? If it is then sounds like a good investment as I'll likely always have a BMW 8) :rofl:

No I never said that... my experience with the UP7 thus far is only with DSP equipped cars so I can't say for certain if it'll work on yours. Assuming the connections are the same I don't see why not though. Your safest best is to drop by your local installer and let him have a go. If the UP7 doesn't work, the PP86 or any other generic amp definitely will.

The up7 is made for option 676 i.e. hifi - I'm surprised it works with top. This means it might be easy for me to retrofit top hifi.