'06 Coupe ICE Install *Picture Heavy*

Hi

Could do with your help, been looking through your speaker install, very impressive, I wish to eventually get to the same audio install standard as yours however I wish to do it in stages to spread the cost. At present I have the standard 6 – speaker setup on a 2.2i 2005 z4- very poor.

Just complete DIY AUX lead to the head unit so notice more how poor the standard 6 speaker system is.!!

Be think of doing the following three stages first !

Stage 1) 1 x Hertz: ECX100.3 - 2 way 10cm speakers - £70 – Link
Door speakers - I bought these now sitting in study – split tweeter cables mount

Stage 2) 2 x JL Audio JL6W3v3-4 6.5" 150 W Sub Woofers - £89 each – Link
Foot well speakers I got these on order – just replace the present two stock speakers using the instruction provide in your install. Is it the 4 ohms version your order they retail at £113 now.

Stage 3) 1 x Hertz: ECX100.3 - 2 way 10cm speakers - £70 – Link
At present one of the behind head speaker passenger side is blown – I understand lot of trim to get access. I though just replace pair with the same type as door speakers.

Would this set up work ??? :?
Regarding working with standard setup. I.e. ohms ratings and power required for speakers!! Etc.
I though I use this set-up like this for a while then follow the rest of your install

I assume I would have to install the amp and the bass speaker as part of the same process?

Or could I just put the amp in first? As making the sub holder will be pain?

stage 4) 1 x Kenwood KAC-X4D Amplifier (1200W, 4 Channel, Class D) - £275 –
1 x Kenwood KPX-T120 Tri Mode Crossover Network - £25
1 x Hertz: ESK163L.3 - 3 way 16.5cm components - £219 –
2 x Connection by Audison: FT2-550 - 5.5m RCA - £15 each – Link

Does this staged process sound possible?

Thanks for your advice – very grateful

Alan
 
@ Newbers the install went well, couldn't take any pictures since the camera was on loan to friend for a wedding shoot. but I'll take some when I get it back.

@ Dr_Rod Be mindful of the mounting depths of the 10cm speakers if you can test fit them first that will help since you dont want them fouling the window mech or not being able to fit into tha tiny space left for the rear mids, or you'd be stuck with them and no refund option after fitting. I chose the Hertz: ESK163L.3 since I know it's very shallow on the mids.
Those JBLs will be vastly underpowered from the stock head unit, you need to run them off an AMP, stock unit only puts out like 25w per channel or something pony like that; hence the higher spec models have seperate amps.
I'm also not too sure they'll fit in the footwells since they are huge in comparison, however you can always mount them on thicker MDF, the concern with that is the passenger side as there's not much play behind the speaker grill. But if you're anything like me then you wont know till you try.

To put it plainly, the stock unit wont be able to power anything much larger than the speakers it's currently powering; you're going to need an amp if you start changing the speakers around or you'll be wasting your money.

For you I would recommend this:
Stage 1
Kenwood X4D (or any other Class D 4 channel amp) £275
1 x Hertz: ESK163L.3 for the front (or in the exact same places the speakes are currently) £219
leave the existing mids just turn down the amp volume so they don't pop :wink:

Stage 2
1 x Hertz: ESK163L.3 for the rear (can't buy the component seperately) £219
1 x boss 7 band graphic equaliser (defo needed to tune up the sound) £49

Far more simple and uniform since your layout will be linear with the various crossovers and frequency bands.
Here's a diagram of the install I have semi finished, I'm ditching my JBL's and rear mid since I now have a removeable boot sub and will be replacing them with the Hertz: ESK163L.3.
ComponentWiringDiagram.jpg


You probably wouldn't wanna do all that though :lol:
 
Hi th30d0r3

I see that you now have an Eq in your system. This is the bit that's been really bugging me - since it was pointed out to me, it is very obvious how the bass roll's off as you turn up the volume on the factory head unit (to protect the puny factory speakers). :thumbsdown:

Did you ever find the crossover (that you referred to above) in the rear speaker (mids) line? I have a suspicion that the eq for this channel is set in the head unit (and not a seperate piece of hardware in the speaker wires).This is perplexing me because I just bought a sub tube for the boot (not got it out of the box yet) but I'm suspecting I'm not going to find much of a bass signal going to those rear mids which would be the obvious place to connect it.

I wonder by way of comparison if you ever tried powering your JL subs from the front channel rather than the rear? There may well be more bass on that line which would make them perform better.

On that topic something else that I'm wondering about, how difficult might it be for an electronics whizz to identify the circuit that sets the eq in the headunit and bypass it? It's presumably analogue (so coils/capacitors and perhaps a transitor or basic chip) so should be easy to spot. It would have thought it would be unique to each car (assuming the guts of the radio go in to the headunits for lots of different cars with different speaker set ups etc.)

May be even better would be to actually locate the signal from the radio before it goes to the final power amp stage (which is probably where the eq is applied). Then you could replace it with a simple pre-amp and have RCA outs... Where do I find an electronics expert.......? :?

In the meantime I'm anticipating biting the bullet and as well as an amp + speakers, shelling out for some sort of eq/bass restoration device.

There are a few things like http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_cleansweep_pages.php?page_id=94 this basically flattens the Eq from the factory head unit so that you can the add amps and speakers but you have to have a seperate volume control so that's a non-starter. There is also this http://www.reqsound.com/home.aspx which at the moment is looking like my favourite option as it doesn't have a seperate volume control. I also stumbled across a neat equivalent (from Rockford Fosgate?) which you hide away but then adjust with a laptop or Palm device via bluetooth. (300 notes tho.)

There is also this http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/plugplay-amplifier0.html?&L=1 which I think looks very cool. It fits using all standard plugs you then down load an eq profile for your car on a memory card. They don't have one for a Z4 (let alone Coupe) but you can set it up manually from a laptop or using dip switches. This kills two birds with one stone because you get the amp as well in a steathy package. Again quite a lot of money although I've seen them cheaper on German ebay.

That's a really long way of saying what eq are you using?
 
The EQ was just a test since I wanted more control over the sound, it does work well but you can't expect much for £49. I will be looking to replace it with something like a cleansweep methinks. (thanks for the link btw).

The channels do perform differently I'm pretty sure of it since I tried to run the subs of the rear channel and it was too flat to hear anything, that EQ is only fed by the front channel and it gives you front and rear out the other end as well as a sub channel, however it's not very good at all 3 so I have the sub running directly off the rear channel and I do notice the difference; it's just not as loud. as for an electronics whizz to figure out the circuits, you're better off buying the cleansweep for that. pay day will grace me with the cleansweep and the 2nd hertz kit.

I've never run the JL's off the front channel I never really thought of that; but when I think about it the EQ still feeds the components through the X4D from the front channel so technically that would be a yes.

That fischer amp seems nice but it's not very powerful, it's certainly not powerful enough for the hertz kit which is why I didn't go for the X5D which is the same size but with a 5 channel for the amp.
 
:o that's some kick a.. write up and system, thanks for sharing :thumbsup: I have the 10 speaker business unit system in my own Z, and as a long time audiophile freak for my home, the BMW system has much room for improvement, I just wish I had the motivation to do what you did.
 
Hi th30d0r3

I think the point with the Audiotec Fisher Amp is that it is designed to work with factor speakers which are generally very efficient (although obviously comprimised in other respects).

I keep thinking that I don't need anything too fantastic from the stereo (I was more than happy with the HK in my E46) but the entry point to improvement really is very high due to the EQ in the factory radio.

Incidentally I spent an hour or so during a conference call Googling such things and I actually found an electronics engineer on a Subaru forum who hacked his radio and fitted his own pre amps before the eq stage. I have to admit tho he went to a lot of trouble and didn't srrm to be blown away by the results (although appatently a massive improvement with the upgraded amp and speakers.)

I'm currently thinking EQ to front channel (with sub out for the sub that I already bought) is the starting point.....
 
I'm still thinking the cleansweep is the best option in this case, we'll know in 2 weeks once it arrives since I'm gonna get back in there and rewire it all for the 5th time. this quest for the perfect sound is a pain in the proctor.

I have discovered another interesting issue though; when I set my lights to auto I get interference from all the other electrical items in the car such as the windows power steering and so on... it's like the power is being sapped when they're used and the sounds crackles like a poor radio signal. I'd be interested to see if anyone else with an aftermarket system has this problem. since it's fine when the headlights are set to manual.
 
th30d0r3

Can't really help but sounds like a right pain - I like that auto lights feature. Any idea where the sensor is? Does it do it in the day (lights off) and the night (lights on)?
 
Seems to be a red herring coz I spent an hour in the car drive up and down the same stretch of road testing the auto lights and various other things like the monitor on or off and such.
I just can't work out where the interference is coming from, I can only guess it has something to do with the nav install, alternator or a dodgy ground. so I'm gonna do a process of elimination with my trust meter and see where the volts drop or the resistance spikes in various places on the car... Joy!!! :headbang:

I've also decided that I only want one Amp, so need to find a beefy multi channel class D replacement for the X4D.

More updates later today.
 
just been doing some research on the crossovers, and it seems that there may NOT be a crossover in the head unit.
The reason I say that is because the crossovers are located within the amps on the top & hifi systems but I think the head units are all the same. therefore they would conflict no??

The only thing the head unit appears to do is equlize the sound so you wouldn't need a device to sum the audio range. simply a device to flatten the frequencies; so the cleansweep will do that fine, you can find them for around 160 in the states, possibly cheaper.

Can anyone give any imput for the headunits being the same on all 3 stereo versions of the Z4?
 
I can't say with any surity but it seems likely that the head units would be the same regardless of the amp/speaker upgrade options. Otherwise there would have been loads of different upgrade codes and options with restrictions on what can go with what.

When you refer to crossovers in the amps I think your talking about something else. Those crossovers would be for each individual speaker (i.e. 10 of them as opposed to the 6 on the un-amped version). This is just making sure that each speaker gets a range of frequencies appropriate to its type.

I'm feeling pretty certain that the eq is programmed in the head unit to protect the factory speakers so that as the volume increases the mid and top (relatively) increases relative to the bass signal. I think there is then another circuit in the posh amps (either a fixed one or a fancy variable one with the DSP option) that effectively corrects this - or perhaps simply boosts the bass. I had the Harman Kardon in my e46 coupe and I was never aware of needing to fiddle with the bass and treble as I increased the volume and I imagine we are looking at a similar set up here.

The thing that currently does not quite compute is the rear mids. There must be some form of crossover or aggressive eq to stop them getting low frequencies which they couldn't handle. If the eq was set in the head unit to protect the basic speakers there would be an awful lot of correction to do to the signal in order to drive the subs of the Top HiFi. Did you notice when you changed yours (mids) if there was a capacitor soldered between the two terminal on the speaker itself? (I think that's how they used to create a crude high pass filter.)I think that the key test is going to be to plug some full range speakers - perhaps something from the house in to the front channel, then the rear (powered directly from the head unit) and see what difference in signal there is - if any.....
 
When I mean crossover I mean exactly what you have mentioned in the second paragraph, the supposed crossover in the head unit will limit the frequency range of the rear mid, however when you tap into the rear channel at the head unit you don't have that problem.
The amps in the hifi set up use the exact same high output as the standard system, this is the analogue DSP version; it just them applies the crossover to each speaker and sends the signal out; pretty basic and pretty much what an aftermarket amp would do, minus the crossover.
The equilizer is definately altered dependant of volume, the amp would merely boost the lows accordingly dependant on volume. it's rather crude when you think about it.

Taking this in to consideration, I believe all you'll need is a cleansweep type device to flatten the frequency range; or an intermediate EQ (like the crude boss 7 channel eq I have) which you can tweak to then flatten the curve.

The rear mids being the same as the front mid have no resister that I could see; this is why I have completely done away with the stock loom, coz there's something not quite right about it.

Another thing I have noticed is that the head unit does feature a line out, it's just nothing is connected to it; the business CD unit I had before actually gave you an option to switch it on. not sure how that will work with the NAV unit, but I'm gonna wire up a line out to it and run an RCA directly to the EQ which will split it into FR/FL + RR/RL + SUB and then drive my amps from there.

More later...
 
Hello,

Did you ever solve the interference problem? On my Z4M (with twat-nav) I've taken my speaker feeds (from the footwell & from the rear just where the wires go to the rear speakers - not from the head unit)
> into a cleansweep
> then into a fli 900 4 channel amp
> rears off to 6x9s I fitted in the cubby holes (all stealthly hidden of course)
> fronts into the hertz component 163L setup (crossovers and 3 ways as you have done)

But with the amp powered up, and even with RCAs disconnected I get a small whining (key in position 1 so no engine malarkly running).

The whining is of a fixed level, e.g. you can drown it out by having the radio on. I've had the amp swapped out & tried using it with a speaker outside of the car to avoid it picking up interference. Tried re-grounding several places etc.

Any more ideas?

Would love to compare the systems!!

:)
Chris
 
IMG_9081.jpg


The original poster refers to the empty hole where he has dropped the amp ... as the amp hole.

On my Z4 coupe (with Carver system), that hole is empty? Why would that be?
 
krusty said:
IMG_9081.jpg


The original poster refers to the empty hole where he has dropped the amp ... as the amp hole.

On my Z4 coupe (with Carver system), that hole is empty? Why would that be?
Click to expand...

On my 2003 roadster with the Carver setup, the amp sits there. Its a pretty obvious black aluminium box, but on later models I think its bedind the boot carpet attached to the rear bulkhead?!?
 
billy_beemer said:
Hello,

Did you ever solve the interference problem? On my Z4M (with twat-nav) I've taken my speaker feeds (from the footwell & from the rear just where the wires go to the rear speakers - not from the head unit)
> into a cleansweep
> then into a fli 900 4 channel amp
> rears off to 6x9s I fitted in the cubby holes (all stealthly hidden of course)
> fronts into the hertz component 163L setup (crossovers and 3 ways as you have done)

But with the amp powered up, and even with RCAs disconnected I get a small whining (key in position 1 so no engine malarkly running).

The whining is of a fixed level, e.g. you can drown it out by having the radio on. I've had the amp swapped out & tried using it with a speaker outside of the car to avoid it picking up interference. Tried re-grounding several places etc.

Any more ideas?

Would love to compare the systems!!

:)
Chris
Click to expand...


I had a similar problem with my E46 when I mucked about with the ICE. I had alternator whine all the time (tried a few things like you), until I grounded the speaker to RCA converter to the head unit. Try locating the cleansweep close to the head unit and grounding it to the bare chassis of the head unit itself. Solved my problem with the whine instantly...
 
:) thanks for the suggetion, however the amp makes this noise even with the RCAs disconnected and it did it before I bought the cleansweep.

I've also had a problem (which I thought I'd cured but has just come back) where there is no sound at all (eeek) I spoke to BMW who said the headunit detects the ohm resistance of the speakers and if there's an issue or mis-match it goes into safe mode and kills all the sound.

Rebooting the cleansweep cures the problem, but I don't want to do that every time I go out to the car! I guess the next step is to re-do all my connections and see if that cures it but it's very odd (I'm sure it kills the output from the headunit as the active sub behind the passenger seat comes off a lineout convertor prior to entering the sweep)

Best bet, turn it off and listen the engine lol ?

So irritating, I've just about got the system sounding top now as well !!
 
Oh well, so much for my help. Defo a ground loop issue, but if its the amp itself, thats maybe a bit harder to find the source. One other thing to try is get some seriously heavy duty power cable, 0AWG or something, and ground the amp directly to the battery -ve. Ground loop issues, as far as I know, are related to the potential difference of the compents being dissimilar. Thats why they say keep the ground cable as short as possible, so as to keep its resistance as low as possible. One other way is to have super thick cable which has a low Ohm resistance in the first instance, and then take it to the battery itself. Worth a shot if you havent tried it already?

I know what you mean though, my E46 sounded amazing. I put the ignition on, checked it was all working, was amazed at how good it sounded. Then spent 2 hours tidying the wiring up etc. Fired the engine up to drive home and a massive whine started :P
 
Anyone ever seen the BMW head unit go into protection mode? As in all is working, sat nav, phone etc but NO sound? I'm baffled, I had this before and solved it by re-seating all connections but this time I've found just unplugging and reconnecting the cleansweep brings back the tunes......

...until I leave the car off for a minute or two, then ignition on and voila, nothing.... when I spoke to BMW (thinking oh crud I need a new head unit) the engineer told me if it detects any differences in resistance it goes into protection mode as it has intelligence built in..........

Someone must have had something similar?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom