Suspension Bushes and Tracking

[Ed Doe]

Morning all,

I have a 56plate 3.0si Coupe, and although I absolutely adore it; I sense there are a couple of issues, and being the chronic pedant that I am, I want to get them sorted so it's all as it should be!

Firstly, just to explicitly confirm, the car has had the run-flat tyres ditched by the previous owner!

The car has a tendency to track the road. Having owned several powerful cars with wide, low-profile tyres in the past, and being that I drive some pretty cambered roads to work and back, I'm not a stranger to this, but on the Zed it does feel pretty excessive! Now before you all shout me down (I can hear the collective groan from here!), I'm fairly sure this is a combination of the following issues;

1. Snapped rear coil spring. Not a huge amount of spring has snapped off, but it will obviously affect the camber across the rear. OEM replacements have been bought along with the rubber cups, and I'll be giving this a go DIY probably over the weekend.

2. Tyres at the rear have worn to the markers on the inner edges, possibly indicating the rear is toeing out in addition to the marginally increased camber from the snapped spring. I'm in the process of sourcing tyres; I had intended to replace at least the two rears (currently Falken ??fk452s??) with Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric 2s, as these are known to be a good tyre. Are there any alternatives which people recommendations with similar wet and dry performance??

3. Front tyres are wearing fast on the inner edges possibly also indicating toe out. I'm hoping I'll get at least the rest of summer out of these before replacing them in late Autumn.

4. Slight knocking over bumps both from the front and the rear. This is the big question mark. The car is on 52k now, so I'm expecting there to have been some wear on the bushes, and to that end my question is what commonly wears on the Z4? I've read about the Front wishbone rear bushes (which would cause lively steering/tracking the road i'd imagine, and uneven wear on tyres), do the rear bushes cause the same issues? Are the fronts bushes easy to replace, or am I better off getting a garage to do them? Is it easier to replace the whole wishbone (I was intending to go Meyle HD), rather than muck about trying to get the rear bushes off/replaced?


So in short, I definitely need at least both the rear tyres replacing, the rear springs replacing and a full geo set-up done. my issue is I don't want to replace the tyres and try to get it geo'd only to find a load of bushes need doing, and have it eating the new tyres whilst I sort new bushes etc; hence my questions above.

Apologies, the above seems a bit disjointed; I'm just brain-dumping and giving my thoughts on it all.

Any info/help would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers

Ed

 

[Machine monkey]

Hello Ed

Firstly no bother asking any of those questions on hear

1 Replace the rear spring common fault on the zed.

2 could have been caused by the spring. But our roads tend to knock out geometry. Possibly you may have worn bushes out back but they usual dont need replacing until the 100k mark so fingers crossed the geometry is out.

3 Geometry get it checked at the same time.

4 Front wishbones and and the joints (we tend to call the lollipops on hear???) Are a weak point and usually go around the 50k mark. A lot of people use Myley products i have never heard a bad word about them.

Once the bushes that are worn and the springs have been replaced get a 4 wheel alignment done. These cars a apparently very sensitive to the alignment. I am going through similar problems at the moment.

All the best Ed

 

[cj10jeeper]

Agree with all Ed has said. Just let me add that you should do the front wishbone and bushes. Also do the drop links and ARB bushes for the sake of another £20 of bits.

The make Ed refers to is Meyle HD. Just search Ebay for kits of wishbones and lollipos as they are better value.

 

[Ed Doe]

Thanks for the helpful responses guys; crikey too many Ed's in here!

Right, I'm getting it up on a ramp this evening with a mechanic to have a poke around and see what's moving and what isn't!

To clarify then, CJ should I get the whole wishbone, or just the 'lollipop bush'?

I've done a bit of research, and can either get the complete wishbones here;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190933378791?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Or just the Lollipop bushes here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E46-M...Cars+Type:3.0+SI|Model:Z4&hash=item233417f275

I'd need to get myself a bush puller if I got these; and in case anyone else is trying to find something that works, I reckon this one will do the trick nicely:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-3-Pc-...t=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item19ea96303c


How easy are the ARB bushes to do, and is it worth getting uprated ones, such as these;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390409024...eName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Are the track-rod ends known for going?

That little lot will definitely keep me occupied!!

Machine Monkey, how have you been getting on with your issues? What have you replaced so far?! Have you done any of the rear bushes yet? Apparently when these go they can cause toe out or toe in when you accelerate. Sure that makes for a pointier entry to corners, at the expense of stability at high speeds...

In terms of geo, do people just get a normal alignment done? I was intending to get a proper toe, caster, camber and thrust angle set up done at Back on Track Motorsports near Guildford... It's cheaper than getting BMW to do it, and I bet you anything they'll do a more thorough job!! Thoughts?

Cheers

Ed

 

[hopz121]

I have some brand new Meyle lollipops for sale if you are interested for cheaper than the ebay price

Ash

 

[Machine monkey]

Well i have been replacing quite a bit of stuff. I started last year but had a building project at home so have not got the car done yet.

I have replace the lollipops arbs and the anti roll bar drop links and coil overs all round. I have new track rod ends and wishbones in the garage waiting to go on. I also have diff mount bushes diff to diff mount bushes and the trailing arm bushes to replace as well as an uprated rear arb and bushes. I have not had it set up and at the moment from some of the changes it drives like a pig!! But hopfully when i get time and the jobs are done it will drive better than new.

 

[cj10jeeper]

I'd get the wishbones and bushes as after 50k both will be shot at.

You can use E46 as they are often listed for less.

No need tfor a puller, just a hammer if you buy separate pieces. If assembled even easier.

ARB bushes are easy and I'd fit standard. Steer clear of poly as they are rubbish and creak and groan. Been there and binned them..

 

[Ed Doe]

Thanks for all the info guys, much appreciated.

I've looked but cannot find any information relating to removal of the complete wishbone. It seems most just replace the lollipop bushes! Can anyone point me in the direction of a removal step-guide?!
Are the two ball-joints known to go? I'm assuming they're held in with pinch bolts?

And a big thanks for the heads-up on the poly-bushes! Wont be fitting those then!!

@ MAchine Monkey; crikey doesn't sound like there's a lot left you haven't replaced already!! Good luck solving it; I'd put money on the issues currently being down to all the new parts and no geo set-up, but if it's on the list it should drive perfectly by the time you're done!

 

[Machine monkey]

I am hopping it will be better!!

I brought a Haynes manual it is a great reference. I have played about with the front suspension a bit. I have not removed the wishbones. But if your fairly comfortable with spanners i would say its a DIY job.

 

[cj10jeeper]

Thanks for all the info guys, much appreciated.

I've looked but cannot find any information relating to removal of the complete wishbone. It seems most just replace the lollipop bushes! Can anyone point me in the direction of a removal step-guide?!
Are the two ball-joints known to go? I'm assuming they're held in with pinch bolts?

And a big thanks for the heads-up on the poly-bushes! Wont be fitting those then!!

@ MAchine Monkey; crikey doesn't sound like there's a lot left you haven't replaced already!! Good luck solving it; I'd put money on the issues currently being down to all the new parts and no geo set-up, but if it's on the list it should drive perfectly by the time you're done!

Wishbone and ball joints are a single unit. Yes - they wear out and in reality pointless doing all the removal of the lollipops to fit them on 50k wishbones.
No how to just split them off and any other ball joint.

 

[Ed Doe]

Right slight update. My lollipop bushes are completely shot. I'm assuming this would cause toe out at the front and therefore a) the very exciting camber following handling, and b) the wear on the inside of the front tyres?

Oh well at least it's diagnosed now! Just got to fix it all. Along with full geo. And tyres. Expensive month for me then!

 

[mariojoshi]

Ed - be careful about replacing just rear tyres if they do not match the fronts.

I'm experiencing awful problems having changed the from all round Conti SP3s to rear Vredesteins. Another member had a similar problem with changing just the rears to Goodyears when he had Falkens I think. He is now sorted having swapped all four together. I'm hoping I will solve my issues changing the fronts to match.

No one can put it down to anything else.... apparently differences in sidewall stiffness might be upsetting the car's balance.

Anyhow - best of luck with getting the car on the straight and narrow!

Josh

 

[Ed Doe]

Thanks for the info Josh. I hate having half and half tyres so I was goingto bung a complete set of Goodyear Assy 2s on it anyway for peace of mind. Just need to time it all right. The bushes and springs need doing before tyres and geo, but the geo guy I'm intending to use (Back On Track Motorsport in Guildford if anyone's come across them before?) are booked up for a while! I desperately don't want to end up running on new tyres with shonky geo for any time at all!

 

[mr wilks]

Look forward to seeing how this progresses & to what extent you pursue it
I had zero issues with my Zc wearing tyres uneven or tracking badly but i did feel the car lightened & unnerved me at speed :? especially so on anything other than very smooth roads
Switching to standard rubber helped beyond belief as i still remember the first few weeks with it & wondering just how long i could tolerate it
I think its a Z4 trait & i would have loved for everyone to have gone 0-100 in my Zc followed by 0-100 in the V6 TT i just sold
One felt planted & secure whereas the other was a little adventurous & unpredictable , i guess one you can crack on whilst daydreaming & one needed a little more attention

 

[Ed Doe]

I'm sure a lot of my issues relating to the exciting handling/feeling at speed is due to the lollipop bushes. But I'll definitely keep the thread updated I bought the car expecting to have to actually drive it rather than just sit in it and make rapid progress, but that's what bored me about my last car. It was too easy to drive quickly and almost too capable at public Road speeds.... It was a very quick way of getting from point to point. But I never got there with an ear to ear grin on my face.

The complete opposite is true with the zed. It's fun, engaging and you have to be paying attention to drive it. But it's rewarding to do so. In case you can't tell I absolutely adore it, and I'm so happy to have made the jump from quick hot hatches!

Hopz you will shortly have a PM

 

[mj2k]

Will keep looking here also.

Had the front & rear ARB bushes (think that's what they are called) changed a few weeks back, Grosvenor said no need for the lollipops to be done as not worn. Had a full alignment done afterwards.

Huge improvement, but still wandering more than I'd like. Will be dropping tyre pressures at the weekend to see what effect this has, as believe I might have them too high.

Lucky in that my wife has a Z also so I can compare, and hers is a 'drive with one hand' car on a motorway, whereas mine is almost tiring on the arms at brisk progress & certainly not able to relax. Want it to be sorted, as know it can be better. After pressures & if no improvement will changethe remainder of the front suspension regardless of mechanical advice.

Assuming the steering rack is not different on a 3.0si vs 2.5si?!

 

[Smartbear]

Will keep looking here also.

Had the front & rear ARB bushes (think that's what they are called) changed a few weeks back, Grosvenor said no need for the lollipops to be done as not worn. Had a full alignment done afterwards.

Huge improvement, but still wandering more than I'd like. Will be dropping tyre pressures at the weekend to see what effect this has, as believe I might have them too high.

Lucky in that my wife has a Z also so I can compare, and hers is a 'drive with one hand' car on a motorway, whereas mine is almost tiring on the arms at brisk progress & certainly not able to relax. Want it to be sorted, as know it can be better. After pressures & if no improvement will changethe remainder of the front suspension regardless of mechanical advice.

Assuming the steering rack is not different on a 3.0si vs 2.5si?!

Are you still running runflats? I took mine off & found an improvement with tramlining & general ride quality.
regards

 

[mj2k]

Are you still running runflats? I took mine off & found an improvement with tramlining & general ride quality.
regards

Not for the last 2 sets of tyres, wish it was that easy!

Just dropped my pressures down to 30/32 F/R, after reading up on a few things. Only a little trip to Waitrose today, so nothing to judge steering by, seems heavier as a result but will find out tomorrow when I hit the motorways.

Matt

 

[mj2k]

As a technical luddite, I have just checked my last invoice for the work done.

I had front brake reaction bushes changed.

Are these different to lollipop ones?

Suggested to the garage they changed them all while they were there, but they were insistent it wasn't required.

My car just feels so different to my wife's, but having now changed to 19" wheels cannot tell the garage that they should feel identical - motorways has me always making small adjustments.

Hating 30/32 pressure, too vague & will increase by 2psi at the weekend when I get a chance & try that.

Matt


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[Toe-side]

So booked Z into a local garage that has has laser alignment and has a history of prepping motor sport cars (mostly rally).
Steering rack checked and found correctly aligned (Bump steer check)
Alignment done:
Rear was spot on. Front however was found around 5 mm out 'toe out'.
This ties in with the way that the car wanted to steer when the front suspension loaded up depending on the camber of the road one tyre would gain more grip and cause the car to shoot off in that direction to a greater or lesser extent.
Garage has set up the car with 1mm 'toe in' and the drive is MUCH MUCH improved Steering is less nervous and much more 'planted'.
I would thoroughly recommend that you get this checked out as part of your fault finding. Wish I had done it ages ago but hadn't realised I had such a good motor sport resource close by for advice. However any laser alignment set up could do the same. Will monitor tyre wear as advised by the garage and any issue we will adjust.
I was getting to the point of frustration with my car on our local roads. Much happier with the set up now